Me, Myself and I: The Time Travel Edition
Sep. 16th, 2020 09:51 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mildred_of_midgard posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
rheinsbergAuthor: selenak, mildred_of_midgard
Original discussion: https://cahn.dreamwidth.org/170895.html?thread=2180751#cmt2180751
So I was idly browsing throughfail_fandomanon when the question was asked "how would your fave get along with their younger self and vice versa", and lo, I thought: MY historical fandom has a canonical reply to this that doesn't involve time travel! Which other fandom can say that?
Incidentally, for what it's worth, I think Older Fritz and younger Fritz would interact slightly differently than Fritz and Heinrich do if there was time travel, simply because older Fritz would try to save Katte (and possibly some other people dying from 18th century medicine rather than despot). If there was no time travel/saving people possibility there, though? We've got the canon.
Which led me to wonder about some other people, and here I'm going for "most interesting" as when they meet in their respective timelines:
MT: young MT would not get why in the last years of her life MT would reach out to Fritz to end the war of Bavarian Successio as long as it was still unbloody. Making peace with that bastard behind your own son's back? How could you, older self! Conversely, she'd be appalled at older MT's depression, denying herself so much she used to enjoy and general stressed relationship with her kids. Older MT would not relate to younger MT as she does to daughter Marie Christina aka "Mimi" (whom she did see as her younger self), because young MT is way more headstrong and less prone to flatter the monarch. Lots of "damn, I was a brat!" feeling on the part of older MT. There'd definitely be clashes. Then reconciliation as older MT uses the time travel to see FS again, even from a distance, and younger MT just gets it.
Voltaire: would get along swimmingly for about an hour of mutual "we're so brilliant at any age, aren't we?" admiration. Then there'd be fireworks. Younger Voltaire would not accept any advice other than business tips (which companies to invest in).
ETA: young Heinrich with an older self who isn't Fritz: at least I'm not in uniform, so I haven't drunk the cool-aid, that's good. At the same time, it's nice to have a good general repuation, I guess. But wtf is this with writing to goddam Fritz once a week? Why the hell didn't I stay in France once I got there? Where's Wilhelm? And older self, since this is before you meet the Comte, do you mean we're several decades in and STILL haven't found a boyfriend who is exciting and reliable at the same time?
Older Heinrich to young Heinrich: prevent Wilhelm gettting his own command early in the 7 Years War by all means. Even if you have to get on your knees to Fritz and spoil your relationship with Wilhelm for a while by taking the command yourself. But trust me on this. It's the only way to prevent the biggest catastrophe of his and your life.
Émilie: Probably gets along with her younger self? She teaches her and teaches her, so that her time-traveler-educated self is able to progress further than she was on the first iteration (and also knows not to get pregnant later in life), and then the more educated Émilie goes back to give the last one a head start, and on and on it goes. Let's be real, Émilie's the one who invented time travel in this fandom. ;)
Émilie independently develops her method by maths and physics.
Algarotti's younger self to his older self: You STILL haven't found that dream job? And now you're sick and stuck in Italy? I hate Italy! *grumble* At least we're famous, right?
Posterity: For now!
Slightly younger Katte, mid-1730: Can I talk Fritz out of escaping?
Slightly older Katte, November 1730: No. He'll go with you or without you.
Younger Katte: Will I regret having helped him?
Older Katte: No.
Younger Katte: That's all I needed to know.
Fredersdorf time travel got developed into an actual plot:
Fredersdorf: would actually get along with his younger self and give useful tips that would be listened to (both re: his own health and various Fritzian dramas). Younger self would be very surprised by older self's appearance but would adapt quickly. The one problem I could foresee is if younger self asks if Fritz is happy in the future, and older Fredersdorf, who time travels shortly before his death, has to admit there's a war going on (and the Glasow assassination attempt also happened recently, which is one of the things he warns himself about).
Even better, we're living in the timeline where youngish Fredersdorf got warned by time-traveling older self about the *successful* Georgii assassination. Fredersdorf gets kicked out of the tent for increasingly insistently trying to warn Fritz off this new hot young thing, without being able to say what his source is.
Consigliere: *knows what he has to do*
I love the idea that we're in a timeline that Fredersdorf fixed! Though I would suggest that Georgii actually wasn't acting at anyone's behest. He wasn't a spy, he was a hapless go-getter whose lies got out of control, and when Fritz finally caught on, Georgii panicked and killed him. Since he then shot himself, no one ever found out why he did what he did and on whose orders he acted (everyone assumed he was acting on orders). This is also why it takes the Fredersdorfs some time to uncover what's going on, since Older Fredersdorf works on the assumption that Georgii was a spy and that they need to uncover whose assassin he was, lest he simply gets replaced when taken out of commission. This leads to much secrecy and non-explanations, which leads to young Fredersdorf getting kicked out of the tent.
Oh, and also, let's say that the older selves can only speak to the younger selves. No one else is able to communicate with them. (Hence older Fredersdorf not simply going to Fritz himself.) Older Fredersdorf doesn't warn himself from alchemy because in the original timeline, he and an alchemist whom Fredersdorf in the fixed timeline never meets (Saint-Germain?) actually came up with an alchemical method of time travelling. (Since Lehndorff also canonically meets Saint Germain, this is his own time travel chance.)
Mind you, due to older Fredersdorf travelling back within his own life time, we'll never know what ramifications the early death of Fritz has on overall German history even in the 19th century, let alone later. It might or might not depend on the unsolvable question as to whether Heinrich without Fritz in his life becomes his best or worst self. If you believe in the timeline being elastic but eventually stable, Prussia's rise to European superpower still happens, just with Heinrich as Prussia's Richelieu (to AW's Louis XIII), and hence everything else.
selenak, mildred_of_midgardOriginal discussion: https://cahn.dreamwidth.org/170895.html?thread=2180751#cmt2180751
So I was idly browsing through
fail_fandomanon when the question was asked "how would your fave get along with their younger self and vice versa", and lo, I thought: MY historical fandom has a canonical reply to this that doesn't involve time travel! Which other fandom can say that?Incidentally, for what it's worth, I think Older Fritz and younger Fritz would interact slightly differently than Fritz and Heinrich do if there was time travel, simply because older Fritz would try to save Katte (and possibly some other people dying from 18th century medicine rather than despot). If there was no time travel/saving people possibility there, though? We've got the canon.
Which led me to wonder about some other people, and here I'm going for "most interesting" as when they meet in their respective timelines:
MT: young MT would not get why in the last years of her life MT would reach out to Fritz to end the war of Bavarian Successio as long as it was still unbloody. Making peace with that bastard behind your own son's back? How could you, older self! Conversely, she'd be appalled at older MT's depression, denying herself so much she used to enjoy and general stressed relationship with her kids. Older MT would not relate to younger MT as she does to daughter Marie Christina aka "Mimi" (whom she did see as her younger self), because young MT is way more headstrong and less prone to flatter the monarch. Lots of "damn, I was a brat!" feeling on the part of older MT. There'd definitely be clashes. Then reconciliation as older MT uses the time travel to see FS again, even from a distance, and younger MT just gets it.
Voltaire: would get along swimmingly for about an hour of mutual "we're so brilliant at any age, aren't we?" admiration. Then there'd be fireworks. Younger Voltaire would not accept any advice other than business tips (which companies to invest in).
ETA: young Heinrich with an older self who isn't Fritz: at least I'm not in uniform, so I haven't drunk the cool-aid, that's good. At the same time, it's nice to have a good general repuation, I guess. But wtf is this with writing to goddam Fritz once a week? Why the hell didn't I stay in France once I got there? Where's Wilhelm? And older self, since this is before you meet the Comte, do you mean we're several decades in and STILL haven't found a boyfriend who is exciting and reliable at the same time?
Older Heinrich to young Heinrich: prevent Wilhelm gettting his own command early in the 7 Years War by all means. Even if you have to get on your knees to Fritz and spoil your relationship with Wilhelm for a while by taking the command yourself. But trust me on this. It's the only way to prevent the biggest catastrophe of his and your life.
Émilie: Probably gets along with her younger self? She teaches her and teaches her, so that her time-traveler-educated self is able to progress further than she was on the first iteration (and also knows not to get pregnant later in life), and then the more educated Émilie goes back to give the last one a head start, and on and on it goes. Let's be real, Émilie's the one who invented time travel in this fandom. ;)
Émilie independently develops her method by maths and physics.
Algarotti's younger self to his older self: You STILL haven't found that dream job? And now you're sick and stuck in Italy? I hate Italy! *grumble* At least we're famous, right?
Posterity: For now!
Slightly younger Katte, mid-1730: Can I talk Fritz out of escaping?
Slightly older Katte, November 1730: No. He'll go with you or without you.
Younger Katte: Will I regret having helped him?
Older Katte: No.
Younger Katte: That's all I needed to know.
Fredersdorf time travel got developed into an actual plot:
Fredersdorf: would actually get along with his younger self and give useful tips that would be listened to (both re: his own health and various Fritzian dramas). Younger self would be very surprised by older self's appearance but would adapt quickly. The one problem I could foresee is if younger self asks if Fritz is happy in the future, and older Fredersdorf, who time travels shortly before his death, has to admit there's a war going on (and the Glasow assassination attempt also happened recently, which is one of the things he warns himself about).
Even better, we're living in the timeline where youngish Fredersdorf got warned by time-traveling older self about the *successful* Georgii assassination. Fredersdorf gets kicked out of the tent for increasingly insistently trying to warn Fritz off this new hot young thing, without being able to say what his source is.
Consigliere: *knows what he has to do*
I love the idea that we're in a timeline that Fredersdorf fixed! Though I would suggest that Georgii actually wasn't acting at anyone's behest. He wasn't a spy, he was a hapless go-getter whose lies got out of control, and when Fritz finally caught on, Georgii panicked and killed him. Since he then shot himself, no one ever found out why he did what he did and on whose orders he acted (everyone assumed he was acting on orders). This is also why it takes the Fredersdorfs some time to uncover what's going on, since Older Fredersdorf works on the assumption that Georgii was a spy and that they need to uncover whose assassin he was, lest he simply gets replaced when taken out of commission. This leads to much secrecy and non-explanations, which leads to young Fredersdorf getting kicked out of the tent.
Oh, and also, let's say that the older selves can only speak to the younger selves. No one else is able to communicate with them. (Hence older Fredersdorf not simply going to Fritz himself.) Older Fredersdorf doesn't warn himself from alchemy because in the original timeline, he and an alchemist whom Fredersdorf in the fixed timeline never meets (Saint-Germain?) actually came up with an alchemical method of time travelling. (Since Lehndorff also canonically meets Saint Germain, this is his own time travel chance.)
Mind you, due to older Fredersdorf travelling back within his own life time, we'll never know what ramifications the early death of Fritz has on overall German history even in the 19th century, let alone later. It might or might not depend on the unsolvable question as to whether Heinrich without Fritz in his life becomes his best or worst self. If you believe in the timeline being elastic but eventually stable, Prussia's rise to European superpower still happens, just with Heinrich as Prussia's Richelieu (to AW's Louis XIII), and hence everything else.
