rheinsberg | Entries tagged with lord hervey

mildred_of_midgard

Authors:

selenak,

cahn
Original discussion: https://cahn.dreamwidth.org/200007.html?thread=4252999#cmt4252999

selenak: So, at fail fandom anon, they have this "am I the asshole?" meme where a fictional (usually emotionally clueless) character asks this question in universe. I thought this was made for the Hohenzollern (and many of their social circle), so, here we go:

I, m34, was just trying to look out for my bratty younger sibling, m20 - there's this ~~hot~~ guy, total prick tease, whom the brat is swooning about. I might have said the guy has STD and made fun of his everything, and now the brat isn't talking to me anymore, when I was just being concerned for his health! AITA?

I, f55, always wanted the best for my children, especially when it came to their marriages. Now my oldest daughter looks at me as if I'm a madwoman just because I told her she should treat her new husband like her brother and not have sex with him so we can still annul this wretched marriage she should never have agreed to in the first place! She knows how much this means to me, and yet she betrayed me this way, she should be grateful I'm still talking to her at all! AITA?

I should have known this would happen, but: here I am, making some money on the side while providing heroic beta-reading services and writing my own stuff and defending an unfairly attacked guy against a shitstorm - and what happens? The guy who's been hitting on me for 16 years before I finally agreed to move in with him all of a sudden leads the shitstorm, attacks me while he's at it, burns my latest masterpiece and has me arrested while complaining to all our mutual friends that IATA!!!!!

cahn: Now my oldest daughter looks at me as if I'm a madwoman just because I told her she should treat her new husband like her brother and not have sex with him so we can still annul this wretched marriage she should never have agreed to in the first place!

omg, lol SD! I am going to say, YTABPAC, an acronym I just now made up that means "you're the asshole but possibly also crazy" :) Because when you put it like that...

As for your third one, he got some replies:
(just to be complete, for mildred:
ESH = "Everyone sucks here"
YTA = "You're the asshole"
NTA = "Not the asshole")

RandomRedditAddict
I can't help thinking there are a heck of a lot of missing reasons here. How is that you "should have known" this would happen? It's a little hard to say without more details, but I'm leaning ESH on this one.

MyActualNameIsGreaterThanThis
YTA. RRAddict's post above has a great point, missing reasons galore. Maybe you were really mean and annoying and made fun of this poor guy behind his back, whose only crime was thinking you were amazing?? And, like, are you kidding me, people don't just get arrested for NO REASON. I bet there was totally a reason, like maybe you STOLE his stuff!!

selenak: So here I, m, am, having a long term affair with the love of my life (m), procreating in my marriage (with f), having an affair with a bimbo (f) on the side, and mentoring this guy who has admittedly exciting future job prospects in my non existant spare time - and then that utter bastard first has sex with the bimbo, then, when I complain about it, dumps me as an mentor! I'll never get over it! His mother totally agrees with me, but the jerk still refuses to apologize - I don't need to ask whether AITA, because I know I'm not!

Here I, m64, was, enjoying my retirement as a PRIVATE CITIZEN, mentoring a few promising young people both in my state of residence and state of (former) employement, when it occured to me that takingon one more young fellow as a protegé might result in a general improvement of affairs for a great many people due to the kid's future job prospects. Now I was intensely familiar with people in his future line of work and let me tell you, most of these are jerks, with a lot of people suffering for it. His father was one of the worst. Any improvement there was enough of an incentive to lure me out of my retirement. Now I might have used a few questionable methods at first, but those prostitutes could use the money, so could various male friends in his social circle, and also, the competitition did the same thing. For a while, we seemed to hit it off and he expanded his intellectual horizon by listening to my reading tips, but unfortunately, the combination of other influences and an admittedly ill advised photobombing let to an enstragement. Well, at least I got a golden knob for a walking stick out of it, but when the kid, once on the job, immediately initiated a hostile takeover of the worst type, I couldn't help but wonder: could I have prevented this? was I the asshole there?

I, m, am a good looking career guy who used to be a in a steady relationship with someone in the same profession. Okay, my superior, but not the ultimate boss. (Could have had him, too, back in the day, if I'd wanted.) Now, maybe I was a bit high-handed when treating most of my s.o.'s hangers-on as the parasites they were, but I was just looking out for him! I mean, we've been through years of a high stress situation together, and now that's over, he's dumping me for some younger bit of fluff? Am I supposed to take that lying down?!!!! Of course I raised holy hell, I mean, who wouldn't, and okay, maybe hitting on his wife wasn't the best tactic, but I know he's been wanting to divorce her for eons. Anyway, the point is: I've been transferred to the back of beyond while the himbo got a gorgeous estate, and I still don't know how that happened. AITA?

I, m, really want everyone to be happy, and can't help it if many of them hit on me. I also want a steady job. Somehow, this evolved into a situation where this woman whom I had pay my travelling expenses thinks we'll live together while the guy in whose house I lived is having a fit because I had dinner with her on my last evening in town. But did either of them get me the job I wanted? They did not! So what's to complain about? AITA?

Some years ago I, m, and my long term companion, f, agreed to put our relationship on a non-sexual footing. AT the time, I thought it was a good idea, what with me being often ill and also way older. Since then, however, I discovered that I still can enjoy sex with a different woman. This doesn't impact on my relationship with my long-term companion, right? I mean, since we agreed to go platonic anyway, and I'm still as attracted as ever by her mind? It's just, there's this good looking younger guy hitting on her these days, and it looks like she's attracted to him, and I can't see that going anywhere good, so I said so, and we had an almighty row, especially after she found out about my other relationship. Okay, maybe I shouldn't have said "it's not like we're married" or "ditch the he-man, he's just after your money", but was that a reason for calling me a love rat and an overrated hack?!? AITA?

I, m41, am a loving family man with a strong work ethic and good Christian values. All I want is for my family to share those, especially my oldest son. To that end, I appointed him the best teachers, ensured he's always supervised and thus does not feel neglected, and spared him the awful stupid lessons I had to endure as a kid. Like Latin and ancient history. All I want in return is for him to be exactly like me, is this too much to ask? But no. He keeps grimacing when I'm around, ridicules all I hold dear, keeps lying to me, gets into debts and in general shows every sign of becoming the kind of lazy slob bound to ruin my life's work! So naturally I took counter measures. Some of them might have been drastic, like sending bad influences away and dragging him in front of two armies, but they were for his own good! Anyone could see that! And now the kid has humilated me in front of Europe by trying to run away, even conspiring with my own employes in order to do so. I might have overreacted when telling his mother he was dead, slapping his sister and telling him his mother doesn't care anymore, but I don't think so. It's just, my other kid, who's usually good as gold, now doesn't want to join my favourite profession anymore. AITA?

cahn:

DerAlteD
NTA. Kid should be more grateful. Maybe the problem is that he doesn't really see how much you do for him. I bet more family time would help, bring him to your nights out with the guys or whatever you do for fun. Or find him a nice girl! That's what he needs. Bonus is that your other kid will see all this and realize that the male authority figures really do know best.

pastorb
Depends on what you mean by "bad influences" -- I hope you're not trying to totally cut him off from his friends, that would be YTA territory for sure.

BearsAreNotTheAnswer
YTA. I just feel like if someone wants to run away, then that's your answer right there, you know?

mildred_of_midgard

Earlier this year,

selenak reviewed Lucy Worsley's book Courtiers. In the ensuing discussion,

mildred_of_midgard became interested in a document cited by Worsley, namely "A Character of Lady Mary Hervey drawn by herself". Having obtained a facsimile of the document from the Suffolk Record Office, Mildred transcribed the document for salon:

At Ickworth the 20th of January 1744

Although it is an opinion generally received that one does
not thoroughly know oneself, I do not believe it. We conceal
our faults from others, therefore it is believed; At least
it sall be seen if I thoroughly know myself. For once
in my life, I will humble myself (which I will not often do
when I can avoid it) by saying what I know of myself.

I am little, but there are many less. I am strait,
the shoulders low, the waist round and slender, tho' I am
gracefull, the neck long, the throat frightfull, the head
too large, the face flat, the complexion is the best thing
I have, and that none of the finest but there is white
and red ,the nose ugly, large at the end with round nostrils
the mouth neither large or small, ugly or pretty, the
teeth very strong, not of a brilliant white, but well
enough and even, the gums flat and pale, the forehead
ugly, large and too high, the eyes not very small, well
enough made and placed, grey, yet soft and sprightly, as to
my hair it has nothing to make it tolerable, it grows
badly, not thick and of a pale and ugly brown. I have
three moles, one on the forehead & two on one cheek, they
become me. Thus much for my person, I shall only say
that I love neatness very much, and that I affect an
air of grandeur, which does not suit my stature
and makes me appear haughty and disdainfull: I had
forgot my eyebrows. Observe that they are not very
handsome, but well enough and set off my face.

I am not silly, tho' it may sometimes be believed I am,
but I have not one grain of solidity or judgmnet. I am
too apt to believe the professions of friendship that
are made to me, which makes me inclinable to
love than hate, this proceeds not from a good heart but a
weak mind. I am naturally gay and delighted with every
thing, unless I have something to afflict me, in which case
I have no moderation, and believe there is no person so
unhappy as myself. I love people of spirit. Raillery is a
very great pleasure to me, but I don't love those who slander
every body and every thing that is done. I like better
that they ridicule in general, than particular persons,
to' the latter diverts me very much, at the same time that I
feel some remorse for being so much pleased with it, and yet
would not silence them if I could, nor be silent myself.
This is another sign of weakness, also when I see any
one much more ridiculous than the generality of mindkind,
I cannot help laughing in their face. I detest lying, as well
because it is mean and file, as because it is a crime. I
am proud to the last degree, nothing equals it but my
ambition, which is boundless, there is nothing so ridiculous
or impossible in the world but that I have thought of to
satisfy the one and the other. I shall find it a great
misfortune to be so ambitious as I am, as there is no
likelyhood I shall ever be able to satisfy it (it not being
easy so to do) if it is not that I value myself for having
such high thoughts, and sometimes I think myself
almost worthy to be what I desire, because I cannot be
satisfied with less. I greatly love pomp, magnificence of all
sorts and ornament, but respect much more than anything
else, as I think they can never shew me too much. I very much
love persons who show me respect, but no one shews
me enough, because they do not treat me with more than
others of the same quality. I diverty myself very well
when alone, and am never tired of myself. I am very
passionate but don't let it appear. I find it beneath me,
not to be able to disguise it. I am easily chagrined,
which sometimes makes me suffer very much, whe nI am in
an ill humour. I do not shew it, but if ever it is perceived that
I answer only by monosyllables, be assured that I am the
Devil within. I can disguise myself without much pain,
I am bashfull, idle and fearfull. I love sleep, but upon
occasion can sit up all night, or get up before it is day.
When I am at home I amloth to leave my chair [to go]
awalking, but when once I have begun, I like it very
well, and am not easily tired, provided I walk slowly.
Above all I like extremely to view the country. I never
go out on horseback I am afraid. I had rather make
use of a coach than my feet. I am very curious and
awkward. I dance badly, write badly, know not how to play
at cards or do any work. I love Musick infinitely. I
mortally hate children and am uneasy when they are
in the room and they also hate me in their turn.
There is no difficulty I cannot surmount to please those
I love. I am not ungrateful, it is a vice I detest. I had
rather be hated than despised, it is the effect of my pride.
I have a very bad memory for want of sufficient
application. I love novels better than history. Geometry
and astronomy please me infinitely. When I take an
aversion to any one, I have an incredible desire
to affront them.

selenak: Wow, that is fascinating.

cahn, for the record, because we're talking about so many Herveys and Marys: this lady is Molly, wife of Hervey the memoirist, mother of (among others) Augustus the Seaman and Fred the Bishop, grandmother of Bess Foster. Mildred actually tracked down the manuscript from which the quote in Lucy Worsley's book about Georgian courtiers hails from.

( Salon discusses )

selenak

Overall: A short and entertaining biography by Brian Fothergill. Comes with some 1970s sexism (mostly directed at Emma Hamilton) and not exactly homophobia but weird ideas, as when the author quotes first Pope's vicious satire on Hervey the memoirist (which basically accuses Lord Hervey of androgyny and gayness) and then proudly points out Hervey produced eight children with Molly for all that supposed gayness, so there, Alexander Pope. (Brian Fothergill, the ability to procreate doesn't say anything about one's sexual orientation, not that said orientation needs defending in the first place. As

cahn said, if Monsieur could do it... ) , but is not, repeat not, a hagiography. Our author points out that Frederick Hervey had a definite cruel streak in his temper, was very self centric and unbelievably callous when cutting off people and/or ignoring them despite all professed previous affection. It's no wonder Augustus was Molly's favourite son; loyalty isn't Frederick's strong suit, at least not when it comes to women, be they wives, daughters or mistresses/ heavily flirted with female friends. (William Hamilton as Fothergill says was one of the very few exceptions in Frederick's life, a relationship that lasted their entire life time, literally, because they were both born in 1730 (you know, that year where the most exciting thing that happened was Heinrich moving in with AW) and died in the same year, too, and from their public school days at Westminster on were firm friends who never had a fallout. Which is true for hardly anyone else and the Earl-Bishop. Though presumably it helped that once William Hamilton becomes an envoy, it's a long distance friendship punctured by occasional visits.

( Sources and source problems )

On to the story of Frederick, third son of Hervey the memoirist and Molly, named after Fritz of Wales who was his literal godfather in the heyday of his and Hervey the Memoirist's friendship.

( Portrait of the Bishop as a young traveller )

( Meet the Hamiltons )

( Hero to the Irish )

But before I get to the later journeys, let's talk about Frederick Hervey as a father. Because the biography clarifed that he is the father of one the most sensational talked about ladies of her day. His daughter Elizabeth would bear several names in her time, but is best known as Bess Foster, and when I came across her in this biography, I thought, OMG, Bess Foster is a Hervey, that explains so much.

( Deadbeat Dad )

( Flirting Globetrotter )

( How to (not) get related to the Hohenzollern via the King's mistress )

( How to not play Scarlet Pimpernel )

( Bess Foster discussion )
As much as he was a deadbeat Dad to her, I do think Frederick Hervey would have approved. :)

selenak

First of all, authorship to this book is credit to the Earl of Ilchester and Mrs. Langford-Brooke, which I took to meaning the Earl provided a great many of the papers and Mrs. L-B did the actual writing. The preface details the convoluted fate of H-W's papers, and how, among other events, earlier attempts to write is biography or publish a collection of his poetry failed, the later because Southey, the poet entrusted with the task, flat out refused because of changed morality. To which I say: Southey, you had it coming. Partly because of this, I presume, our author(s) are at pains to emphasize how Sir Charles Hanbury-Williams was a man of his time, alright, but not really a coarse Georgian, and would that he had lived in better times. Hence no syphilis, no non-straight verses (though his insinuating comments on Fritz and Hervey are kept intact), and of the het verses, nothing explicit.

This said, it's a biography that uses a lot of primary material - not just Hanbury's own papers but the national archives (which for example the mid 19th century Mitchell editor and publisher Andrew Bisset also used) for all the diplomatic dispatches, and in this regard, it's a treasure trove. Most of the footnotes go to primary sources. On the downside, it doesn't feel like the author(s) consulted many non-British sources - I mainly noticed Poniatowski's and Catherine's memoirs -, but not much else, and nothing German, despite H-W's work in Dresden, Berlin, Vienna, and of course all the Hannover stuff. And even of the British contemporaries, non-complimentary takes on H-W are dismissed in footnotes or in the final chapter with two sentences, like when we're told Lady Mary Wortley-Montagu didn't have a high opinion of him, but as she was friends with his wife, she wouldn't have. (Love the argument, as opposed to "she was on the other side of a feud you even quoted a poem of his from, wherein not only Hervey but she get direclty attacked, and oh, yes, she was friends with Hervey much more intensely - the Algarotti triangle not withstanding - than she was with his wife.) It very much feels like an authorized biography written centuries after the fact.

( Charles Hanbury-Williams: Youth and Soulmate )

Back to the 1920s hagioraphy: At any event, Wimmington's death is what ultimately pushes H-W into his envoy career later. But first Charles is a young man about town, and our authors are at pains to emphasize he was NOT a member of the Hellfire Club and did not participate in its orgies, he was a member of the Society of Dilettanti, which was a slightly more respectable frat boy union and future office holder network. He falls in love with Peg Woffington, the great actress of the day, but while accepting his suit she's also lovers with David Garrick, most famous actor of the day, and this leads to the anecdote where a jealous H-W accuses her of having seen Garrick only this morning, when she told him she hadn't seen Garrick for eons. Replies Peg: "And is not that an age ago?"

We've now reached the early 1740s, and the contortion of "don't say syphilis!" re: H-W's impending marital breakup is so great that I must quote:

( The Illness that Dare Not Speak Its Name )

Simultanously to having his marriage explode, H-W bitches with the Foxes about Hervey.

( We hates him, Precious! )

( Charles Hanbury Williams gets into politics )

( Execution of two Jacobite Lords )

( First Posting: Anglo Among Saxons )

( Second Posting: Meet the Hohenzollerns )

( Interlude: The Mystery of Madame Brandt )

Back to H-W's Prussian adventures.

( Avoiding Jacobite Exiles, Meeting Voltaire, Still Not Meeting Fritz )

Wilhelmine visits, and thus we get a H-W written portrait of her:

( I never met with a woman so learnedly ignorant )

And now for the big letterly explosion. Our biographer tells us this rant on why Fritz sucks, sucks, sucks, is so "outspoken as to be partly unpublishable", because clearly he agrees with Georg Schnath on the tender sensibilities of 1920s readers. Still, what we get is:

( The completest Tyrant that God ever sent for a scourge )

( Fatherly Advice Interlude )

After a brief second Saxon interlude, H-W gets posted to Vienna because London is under the impression the current envoy, Robert Keith, isn't tough enough on MT. As mentioned elsewhere, H-W was that rarity, an envoy who succeeded in making himself unpopular in Vienna and Berlin to the same degree. As with Fritz, he came with an already formed opinion, slightly revised it upon being received by FS & MT (as opposed to Fritz, they received him quickly), and then went back into critique.

( Charles Hanbury-Williams Tells It All: Habsburg Edition )

So no, that diplomatic posting isn't a roaring success, either. Exit Charles Hanbury-Williams. Russia awaits!

( Russian Prelude, more fatherly advice )

( Meeting Catherine The Not Yet Great: Diplomatic Success at Last! )

( Corresponding With Catherine )

( Saying goodbye to Poniatowski and Catherine )

H-W's journey back is described including a mental breakdown in Hamburg. Again, no mention of syphilis. Instead, we leanr that vulnerable Sir Charles manages to attract an enterprising adventuress named Julie John or Johnes who manages, after three days of acquaintance, to extract a marriage pledge and a grant of 10,000 roobles. She will actually show up in England later waving the marriage pledge at his family and will have to be paid off. Says the book: Whether from noxious drugs or from more natural causes, Sir Charles became completely deranged during those days in Hamburg.

Aaand he's off, with another member of the Marwitz clan as escort. He's not locked up in the proverbial attic in England but cared for in a nice house, and his daughters visit, which he reports in a short letter showing he can pull himself together that much. But basically, it's the end for Charles Hanbury-Williams.

( Charles Hanbury-Williams: The Rebuttal )

selenak

This book, "transcribed from the original manuscript at Ickworth and edited by David Erskine" as the front page says, was published in 1754 when David Erskine, a 20th century Hervey descended, talked his grandmother, the then owner of the Hervey papers, into letting him do this. His amusing and very well written introduction proves he has the Hervey literary gift, and I wish I could quote it entirely, but a few choice quotes and paraphrases about the maddest Herveys will have to do. (Lord Hervey the memoirist isn't one of them, and not because David Erskine straightwashes him.)

( General Overview: )

Now, on to the quotes.

( The Hervey Family *snap* *snap* )

From now on, I'm quoting Augustus directly, not Erskine's introduction anymore:

( Augustus marries the most famous noble bigamist of the century )

( Augustus the Florence Tourist )

( Two Hannover princes: The Augustus Hervey pov )

Later that year, our enterprising young Augustus Hervey visits Paris and Versailles:

The next day I was presented to the Queen, she spoke to none of us; afterwards to the Dauphin at his apartment, then to the Dauphiness in hers. Then we went to Madame Pompadour's apartment. She was at her toilette, and the handsomest creature I think I ever saw, and looked like a rock of diamonds. Then we went to Madame L'Infanta de Parma. and Mesdames. The Infanta of Parma spoke to me directly and asked me how I liked Paris, and how Italy. I was the only one spoke to that was presented, and that only by her Royal Highness and Madame Pompadour, who had all FRance round her toilette and seemed to have much more court paid to her than to the Queen.

Reminder: the Infanta of Parma is of course daughter to Louis XV, mother to Isabella the future wife of Joseph, and to the unfortunate education experiment Ferdinand. Mesdames are Louis XV' unmarried daughters who will still be around and edge on a teenage Marie Antoinette to snub Madame Dubarry decades later. The Dauphin and Dauphiness are both doomed to die relatively young, they're the parents of Louis XVI. Madame de Pompadour receiving people at her morning toilette is something near royal only the Maitresse en Titre would do.

1750: It's time for Hervey family trouble!

( Herveys and Hannovers: The Family Arguments War is On! )

In 1752, Augustus is off to Portugal, and this is when the English Casanova designation comes in. According to himself, of course.

( Sexy Portuguese Nuns For the Win! )

Anyway, this is fairly typical for peace time Augustus with the navy. I should add that if his ship is tasked to ferry nobility around, as wiht the Marquis de Bernis, brother to the famous Cardinal (French politician) and his wife (the Marquis is Ambassador at Venice and that's where they are headed), as opposed to concerts and sex this can hahppen:

The 18th we lay thirteen hours under a mainsail with a very violent gale of wind indeed, these people all sick and frightened to death. Most of my own servants were sick too, and I was night and day attending this poor Madame de Bernis, even to giving her the chamber-pot and holding her head and the basin eternally whilst she was sick.

( Visiting Roman Ruins Near Naples )

( A Ravishing Duchess and the Earthquake of Lissabon )

As far as the French and British are concerned, the 7 Years War then starts not with Fritz invading Saxony but earlier with the French taking Minorca after the Brits lose the previous sea battle, leading to the government scapegoating Admiral Byng, Augustus' boss.

( The Tragedy of Admiral Byng )

selenak

...by Matthew Dennison. A very readable and recent biography of Queen Caroline. Dennison would get the Horowski seal of approval: he spells all the German names correctly (which is a true challenge in the case of the Countess of Schaumburg-Lippe-Bückeburg), is aware that the Countess of Kielmansegg was G1's half sister, not mistress, and while sympathetic to his main subject is able to investigate her less than stellar sides as well. (Though he thinks Wilhelmine has no idea what she's talking about with her powerhungry-as-Agrippina comparison, since she never met Caroline.) This is especially notable in the description of the increasingly toxic breakdown of the (non-)relationship between Caroline and her oldest son, but more about this in a moment.

The bibliography is impressive. (No books in German, but he's read all the English translations of Sophie's various correspondences he got his hands on, for example, as well as translated into English or French biographies.) I haven't come across an immediately noticeable error save one, and because he's so good otherwise, I'm now actually confused and uncertain whether he could have been right.

( Just which Hannover Princess did Fritz pledge himself to marry in the English Marriage Project? )

On to the life of Caroline.

( Ansbach Cinderella makes it to the Prussian Court )

But back to Caroline, young princess of tiny Ansbach with no big heritage (remember, product of second marriage) hanging out a lot at Berlin. She was a youthful beauty by the standards of her age - bright blond hair, white, luminous skin, a good figure which only later would get heavy, but would almost to the end be perceived as voluptous -, and an impressive conversationalist. Given the lack of a dowry, the amazing thing is that her first proposal should come from a very impressive source - young Archduke Charles, future Dad of Maria Theresa.

( How Caroline rejects an Empire and becomes a heroine to Protestants everywhere )

On to the Georges: in order to make it always clear who is who, Dennison calls G1 George Louis both before and after his becoming King, and G2 George Augustus (ditto). Why was Caroline's attachment to the Protestant faith a good selling point to convince George Louis she could make a good match for his son, despite the lack of a dowry? Because at this point, the prospect of the British succession became increasingly real. Cousins William and Mary had produced no living offspring. Cousin Anne's children had all died. And the reason why the ca. 50 people between Sophie and Anne were disqualified from the succession in the eyes of Protestant England was that they were all Catholics. Now, George Louis and Sophie cunningly let young George Augustus believe this was all his idea, and he went through that romantic undercover mission where he under a pseudonym showed up at Ansbach (Caroline after Figuelotte's death had gone to her half brother's court) and fell in love at first sight. But there was a lot of stage management behind the scenes there.

( Young George falls in love, but what did Caroline feel? )

When the British parliament produced the Act of Settlement (which made it law that any successor to Anne had to be Sophie or a PROTESTANT descendant of Sophie), Caroline, who definitely had the brains of the marriage, inmmediately started an Anglisation project, learning English, cultivating the increasing number of British visitors now showing up at Hannover, reading up on English literature, and on English history. (She became an early member of Tudor fandom, which the poets cultivating her later noted, pleasing her by comparing her to Elizabeth, not more recent Queens like Anne or Mary II.) Among the Brits showing up at Hannover were the Howards. Charles Howard was a louse, and a physically abusive husband, and his wife, Henrietta, had come here with one aim in mind: get a job from the future British monarchs that would get her away from her husband. Her original idea had been becoming lady in waiting to Caroline, which she did, but she also ended up as future G2's first mistress.

( The Caroline-Henrietta-G2 triangle )

Back to the Hannover days when they were all still young.

( G2 wants to join the army; Sophie argues with Anne )

( Caroline and her oldest son: First act of a train wreck )

( George Louis becomes G1 while Caroline hits on a winning strategy to make herself and her husband popular )

So much for the fun part. Meanwhile, the G1 vs future G2 father/son cold war had become a hot one.

( Almost Murder in the Cathedral: G1 kicks G2 and Caroline out of the palace )

This treatment of Caroline has the effect that Europe, which might otherwise have sided with the patriarch, now sides with the young couple, because cutting off Caroline from her children just because she's a loyal wife looks terrible. It also does lasting damage.

( Caroline loses at motherhood and wins at queendom )

Fritz of Wales arrives without public fanfare through the back entrance of the St. James Palace and is presented with a family who hasn't been missing him. Things go downhill from there.

( Final acts of all sorts )

Caroline dies, after that painful illness, Händel composes a new work in her honor ("The Ways of Zion to Mourn"), G2 says "I never saw a woman worth to buckle her shoe" and at the Royal Exchange, a wit posts: "Death, where is thy sting? To take the Queen, and leave the King!" (As by this time, G2 had lost all the popularity he'd had as Prince of Wales, not least because by his trips to Hannover post ascension to the throne, he'd shown that he did not, as had been expected, "hate Germany and love England". Dennison thinks it's very unfair that Caroline is forgotten today, who'd been the first Princess of Wales since a young Katherine of Aragon and who'd been the most powerful Queen Consort in many a generation, too, doing more than any other single member of the Hannover royal family to assure it became largedly accepted in GB, and he opes his biography helps bringing her memory back at least somewhat.

mildred_of_midgard

gambitten turned up von der Groeben in this post:

( About Lieutenant von der Groeben )

felis found more:

( Letters to and about Groeben )

( The salon discusses )

mildred_of_midgard

Lord Hervey's memoirs on the duel between FW and G2 that nearly happened:

Whilst the King was at Hanover he had several little German disputes with his brother of Prussia, the particulars of which being about a few cart-loads of hay, a mill, and some soldiers improperly enlisted by the King of Prussia in the Hanoverian state, I do not think them worthy of being considered in detail ; and shall say nothing further about these squabbles than that, first or last, both of them contrived to be in the wrong. And as these two princes had some similar impracticabilities in their temper, so they were too much alike ever to agree, and from this time forward hated one another with equal imprudence, inveteracy, and openness.

It was reported, and I believe not without foundation, that our Monarch on this occasion sent or would have sent a challenge of single combat to his Prussian Majesty; but whether it was carried and rejected, or whether the prayers and remonstrances of Lord Townshend prevented the gauntlet being actually thrown down, is a point which to me at least has never been cleared.

Bielfeld's correspondence on the same:

They say that this natural antipathy, which is worse than hatred, once rose so high that the two monarchs, after the example of Charles V. and Francis I., had determined to decide it by single combat; that the King of England had fixed on brigadier Sutton for his second; and his Prussian majesty had made choice of Colonel Derschau; that the territory of Hildesheim was appointed for the rendezvous. His Britannic Majesty was then at Hannover, and His Prussian Majesty was already arrived at Salzdahll, near Brunswick. Baron von Borck, who had been the Prussian minister at London, and who had been dismissed from that court in a most ungracious manner, arriving at Salzdahl, found the King his master in so violent a rage that he did not think it adviseable to directly oppose his design; but on the contrary, in order to gain time, seemed to approve of the choice of single combat, and even offered his service to carry the cartel. But entering the King's appatment an hour after, he took the liberty to say: "Sire, I am convinced that your majesties' quarrel should not be decided but by a duell, and if I am allowed the expression, as between one gentleman and another. But your majesty is scarce recovered from a dangerous illness, and have still the symptoms of your late disorder. How unfortunate therefore would it be, if you should relapse the evening before the combat, or even that very morning, and what triumph would it be for the English king? And what would the world say? what odious suspicions would it cast upon your majesty's courage? Would it not therefore be far better to postpone the entire affair for a few days, till your majesty's health is established?"

The King, they say, acquiesced, though with difficulty, in these reasonings; the cartel was not sent; the ministers of both sides gained time; the wrath of the two kings by degrees evaporated; and by the next year they became in a manner reconciled.

See also

selenak's wonderful emoji ficlet on how this might have played out!

Per Koser (Kronprinz, p. 31), these events (the disputes about the hay and the recruiting of soldiers) took place in August 1729, and soldiers were mobilized.

Arneth, Prinz Eugen von Savoyen, vol 3. p 260. fn 39, p 568.

He declared to Count Seckendorff that he wanted to challenge his brother-in-law to a duel and fight a single combat against him.

39) Sedendorff an Eugen. 19. Juli 1729. Hausarch.

mildred_of_midgard

Author:

selenak
Original discussion: https://cahn.dreamwidth.org/183223.html?thread=3138999#cmt3138999
Relevant background info: https://rheinsberg.dreamwidth.org/36463.html, https://rheinsberg.dreamwidth.org/35210.html, https://rheinsberg.dreamwidth.org/46114.html

selenak: Here are some more ideas for unsent letters, both serious and cracky: G2's challenging FW to personal combat, and FW's equally unsent and/or confiscated reply;

mildred_of_midgard: I also admit that the G2-FW exchange especially jumps out at me as something that has the potential to be amaaaaaazing. Would read! Would so read!

selenak: You would, would you? Well....

🧔🏻 George II, King of England, Prince Elector of Hannover
🧟‍♂️ Friedrich Wilhelm, King in Prussia
👩🏼‍🦱 Caroline of Ansbach, Queen of England
🧟‍♀️ Sophia Dorothea of Hannover, Queen in Prussia
🍾 Grumbkow, advisor to FW
🧑🏻‍🎤 Lord Hervey, Caroline’s Chamberlain

🧔🏻: 🇬🇧 👑😎👅
🧟‍♂️: 💂🏻‍♀️💂💂🏻‍♂️👅
🧔🏻: 😤
🧟‍♂️: 🦅💯🇬🇧 💩
🧔🏻: 🤬 📩⚔️❗️
👩🏼‍🦱 🧟‍♀️: ❓⁉️
🧟‍♂️: ❗️💪🏻 📩
🍾: 🤯
🧑🏻‍🎤: 🇩🇪 🔛🤮
🧟‍♀️: 👑 👶🏻🤩
👩🏼‍🦱: 👑 👶🏻 😡
🍾: 🤔💂🏻‍♂️🐖🏹🍺💝
🧑🏻‍🎤: 😏 🙌🏻
👩🏼‍🦱: 💋🫕 🎻
🧟‍♂️: 😴
🧔🏻: 😴
👩🏼‍🦱 🍾 🧑🏻‍🎤: 👍
🧟‍♀️: 😒

selenak

Lauren Gunderson: Emilie. La Marquise du Chatelet defends her life tonight.

Fabulous play, of which I had seen excerpts on Youtube, and which I've finally had the chance to read. Gunderson excells at witty dialogue, she does manage to make the main scientific issues of Émilie's life comprehensible to non-scientists, and while providing ample room for Émilie's love life avoids the trap fall of biopics and bio dramas about female characters, which end up all too often are all about the romance and utterly fail to show what made female character X famous, and what drove her. Not so here. She thanks Judith Zinsser in the preface and mostly follows the outlinesof Zinssers biography, though not so much in the Voltaire characterisation. Her Voltaire is flawed and male ego is a big reason for his clashing with Émiilie re: Newton vs Leipniz and then taking up with Denis, but at the same time, Gunderson's drama does present him as sincerely loving Émilie throughout the story. It helps, of course, that she's a playwright and he's a witty character. (Notable the only one other than Émilie herself who isn't played by the three actors - "Soubrette", "Gentleman", "Madame" - who take over the roles of everyone else at different points in the drama.)

Judith Zinnser: Émilie du Chatelet: Daring genius of the Enlightenment.

Mostly I agree with

cahn's take. It's extremely informative and well researched in terms of Émilie and her world, though there's the occasional glitch an editor should/could have spotted, as when Zinsser, reporting on what the Marquis du Chatelet was doing in the 1740s, says he was busy fighting for King and Country in the Austrian War of Succession against "Prussia and England". Prussia was, of course, an ally of France in the Austrian War of Succession, and the Marquis would have been fighting against Austria (and England). (BTW, Austrian Trenck does mention him briefly and approvingly as a worthy opponent when talking about conquering Straßburg.) I learned a few fascinating details unknown to me, like Louise Gottsched (wife of Gottsched the language defender and important Enlightenment figure in her own right) writing about Émilie, which I must remember to check. Zinsser also is good at pointing out several of the anecdotes about Émilie being just that, anecdotes, and unverifiable, and at giving source citations. However, in her laudable zeal of presenting Émilie as her own woman, not Voltaire's love interest, and arguing against all those years of one sided Voltaire idolisation by biographers (that is, by pro Voltaire biographers - he had of course his enemies writing about him from his life time onwards though for reasons having nothing to do with Émilie), I find she ends up going to the other extreme and simply asssuming the worst with just about everything Voltaire ever said about Émilie.

( Where Zinnser went over the top )

All this said: the book isn't about Voltaire, nor should it be. It's about Émilie, and very much succeeds in being so.

Robyn Arianrhod: Seduced by logic. Émilie du Chatelet, Mary Sommerville and the Newtonian Revolution.

I've only read the Émilie part of this so far but really like it. Heavy on the scientific side but lucidly written - the author even had the chance to read Émilie's original manuscript of her Principia translation, and describes it - and the description of Émilie's life is neither as romantisizing as Bodanis nor as defensive and feeling in need to rescue Émilie from Voltaire as Zinsser.

( Fascinating details and context provided by Arianhrod )

( Sidenote: Françoise de Graffigny, her story and her fallout with Émilie and Voltaire from her perspective )

( Cahn reviews Arianhod as well )

selenak: This brings me, though, to one thing all the Émilie books agree on without ever poviding citation and quotes to back it up, and which I have to say I must question, to wit: Madame Denis as "eager to please, not talking back, conventionally feminine and either of mediocre intelligence" (the non fiction crowd) or downright stupid (Gunderson). Now, as I said before, I don't doubt that there was something of the cliché of "man in midlife crisis goes for sexy young thing" in the whole Voltaire/Denis relationship starting when it did. But given how Madame Denis appears throughout the rest of Voltaire's life, and given the utter lack of eager to please quotes from her in these books, it seems to me our Émilie biographers approach the question with a pre-formed idea (Émilie was too challenging, ergo he went for a bimbo) and don't bother to back it up. Why do I think that? Not because I see her as a misjudged genius, no. But consider this:

( Madame Denis doing her own thing )

Back to the actual books. One thing

cahn did not mention, which has nothing to do with Émilie, was Zinsser in her summary of Voltaire's pre-Émilie life and loves springs this on us:

( Zinsser: Voltaire was bi because he was molested by Jesuits and/or English aristos! )

Current Mood: contemplative

selenak

Being a review/write up of: "Francesco Algarotti: Ein philosophischer Hofmann im Jahrhundert der Aufklärung", edited by Hans Schumacher and Brunhilde Wehinger. (Brunhilde Wehinger also wrote and edited several Émilie-related essays and essay collections.) This is an anthology of essays by different authors on Algarotti's work, covering the entire spectrum - the Newton book, the poetry, the philosphical treatises, the correspondance with Fritz, the Russian travel book - and showcases what a polymath he was. Otoh, there is little biography in it; it's really focused on the work. This said, I found various interesting-to-us things to report.

( From A for Art and B for Broccoli to F for Frexit )

Current Mood: busy

mildred_of_midgard

Related to this post, where Hervey claims that the Countess D'Elitz slept with G1, G2, and Frederick, Prince of Wales.

Act 1

Dramatis Personae

1) Melusine von der Schulenburg, Duchess of Kendal: Related by marriage (but not blood, as far as we can tell), to the Kattes. Called Aunt Melusine by Hans Hermann. Mistress of George I. She and G1 had 3 daughters, (2) - (4) below.

2) Anna Luise von der Schulenburg, Countess of Dölitz: Or "d'Elitz," as Hervey spells it. Oldest daughter of G1 and Melusine. Mistress of G1, G2, and FoW, according to Hervey.

3) Petronella von der Schulenburg: 2nd daughter of G1 and Melusine. Possibly had an affair with visiting Hans Hermann in the 1720s, per a letter from Hans Heinrich to his brother. Married Philip Stanhope, 4th Earl of Chesterfield, aka the famous Chesterfield, in 1733.

4) Margarethe Gertrud von Oeynhausen: 3rd daughter of G1 and Melusine. I have no stories about her (yet).

5) Philip Stanhope, 4th Earl of Chesterfield: The famous one. Married to Melusine's daughter Petronella. British envoy to the Netherlands in 1730. Helped Peter Keith escape to England.

6) Philip Stanhope: Modern-day protagonist of Zeithain. Fictional descendant of Petronella and Chesterfield, who in reality had no children together.

See also the family tree, which is missing Melusine's other daughters, because at the time I made it, I didn't know that one was of such interest to gossipy sensationalists. ;)

Scene 1
Philip Stanhope is so named because Melusine's daughter Petronella married Lord Chesterfield.

Scene 2
When Hervey writes, "Madame d'Elitz was a Schulemberg, sister to my Lady Chesterfield," it's because Madame d'Elitz is Melusine's oldest daughter, and Melusine's second daughter, Petronella, is Lady Chesterfield (as of 1733).

Scene 3
If Anna Luise has been sleeping with G1, G2, and FoW, or any combination thereof, those are her father, half-brother, and half-nephew.

Act 2

Dramatis Personae

7) Gertrud von der Schulenberg: Sister of Melusine. Wife of Friedrich Achaz von der Schulenburg, who is clearly related to her, although how closely, I can't say. Adoptive mother of (2) - (3), Anna Luise and Petronella.

8) Friedrich Achaz von der Schulenburg: Married to Melusine's sister. Related to his wife somehow. Adoptive father of Melusine's two oldest children by G1.

Scene 1
You might have been lured into thinking that Anna Luise and Petronella are von der Schulenbergs because their mother Melusine was a von der Schulenberg and they were illegitimate, but no, that would be too easy.

The reason Anna Luise (2) and Petronella (3) are von der Schulenbergs, while their younger sister (4) is not, is that the first two were adopted by their mother's sister, Aunt Gertrud, and it so happens that Aunt Gertrud had married a relative by the same last name. Whereas (4) was adopted by a *different* sister of Melusine, who had married a different man, and thus had a different last name.

Scene 2
So when Hervey writes, "Madame d'Elitz set out for England, where she now was with her aunt and sister, the Duchess of Kendal and Lady Chesterfield," it's because her aunt, the Duchess of Kendal, is actually her mother (you know, like all the popes and their "nephews"), and her adoptive mother is her real mother's sister.

selenak

Hanna Smith and Stephen Taylor: Hephaestion and Alexander: Lord Hervey, Frederick, Prince of Wales, and the Royal Favourite in England in the 1730s.

Which is an excellent, highly readable essay of about 30 pages succeeding in what sets out to do, put the Hervey/FoW relationship into context and drawing conclusion. The authors always make it clear when they're speculating, but also on what grounds they do so.

( On Good and Bad Royal Favourites )

The other important context the authors establish is that of the changing attitude towards same sex relationships.

( Old School Libertinism versus 300 Men on Trial for Sodomy )

Yet another context in which the Hervey and Fritz of Wales relationship plays out is that of the Royal Family.

( Why it's a bad idea to get tight with a mother and son at the same time )

( So why did they break up, and why did Hervey never get over it? )

Lastly: when they were close, how close where they?

( The warm Orestes to his dear Pylades )

In conclusion: how an erastes and eromenos relationship can go truly, badly wrong, even if it remained subtextual between them.

Current Mood: busy

selenak

Or, to give them their full title: "Memoirs of the Reign of George the Second, by John, Lord Hervey". Edited by the Honorable John Wilson Croker, a very Victorian gentleman. When reporting that Hervey's grandson censored the memoirs before entrusting them to family outsiders by removing, notoriously, the part dealing with the time between May 1730 and summer of 1732, i.e. anything covering the close relationship between Hervey and Frederick "Fritz", Prince of Wales before their falling out and Hervey vowing undying hatred, he adds that not only can he understand the grandson in question, he also sees it as his mission to protect us readers from too much Rokoko grossness and wishes only he could spare us more. A non-bowlderized edition of Hervey's memoirs does exist, but not copyright free, which is why we went for this one, after first Horowski in his "Das Europa der Könige" and then Halsband in his Hervey biography made me very curious indeed about the English Lehndorff. Sorry, I couldn't resist; actually a British author I recently read did refer to Lehndorff as "The Prussian Hervey, though without that lord's malice or style". Reading through two volumes of Hervey's memoirs, I could see their point. (Though really, no question as to which bisexual Queen's Chamberlain who is fixated on a prince I'd rather go out with...)

So: Hervey can coin a phrase, and is viciously hilarious. Alas for our purposes, he thinks G2's insistence of seeing himself as a German prince and being involved in German and continental politics is a waste of time at best and a danger to England at worst, involving the Brits in continental battles and always on the wrong side. (The Imperial one.) Hervey dies in the early 1740s, remember, so for him German = mostly the creaky old HRE and its politics. He hasn't got much time or attention for FW and Prussia, and of course the years 1730 - 32 are missing. But there are bits on the G2 & FW relationship, and what there is is hilarious. (It also tells us that if Fritz had ever made it to England, he would have had the weirdest sense of deja vu...)

( That time when George II almost challenged Friedrich Wilhelm to single combat )

So much for the Prussians. I get to the next part of family feuding, a word about linguistics. Since the Hannovers are a part of German high nobility, they mostly talk to each other in French, and in German only if they don't want Hervey to understand them. (Hervey, like 99% of English people, does not speak German.) You may have gathered Hervey isn't much impressed with his German overlords, though he doesn't limit his not impressedness by royalty to the House of Hannover (or of Brandenburg). He thinks the lot of them are rubbish:

For my own part, I have the conduct of princes in so little veneration, that I believe they act yet oftener without design than other people, and are insensibly drawn into both good and bad situations without knowing how they came there. (...) I think most of these political contenders for profit and power are, like Catiline and Caesar, actuated by the same principles of ambition and interest, and that as their success determines their characters, so accident determines their success. Had Csesar fallen in the plains of Pharsalia, like Catiline in those of Pistoia, they had both been remembered in the same manner; the different fortune of those battles is what alone constitutes the different characters of these two men, and makes the one always mentioned as the first and the other as the last of mankind.

On the other hand, he's also fiercely ambitious, which means being tight with the PM, Sir Robert Walpole, having a court office and cultivating his ties with the rest of the royal family is important to him. The one he is a bit impressed with, though not uncritically so, is Queen Caroline.

( The darling pleasure of her soul was power )

If Caroline is the sometimes shady but mostly impressive heroine of these memoirs, there's no question as to who's the villain, and no, it's not her husband. A quick reminder of the quintessential Fritz of Wales facts: when the rest of the family moved to Britain, he was seven and left in Hannover. He wouldn't see his parents or siblings again for the next fourteen years, during which time his parents had another son - the future "Billy the Butcher", William, Duke of Cumberland - and blatantly would have preferred that one to inherit. After G1 died, Fritz of Wales finally was allowed on British shore, befriended Hervey, Hervey signed his letters to the prince "your Hephaistion" (claiming the identity of Alexander the Great's bff and lover for himself) while Fritz of Wales compared them to Orestes and Pylades... and then they had a terrible breakup, after which Hervey and the rest of the royal family compete describing Fritz of Wales as the scum of humanity. So here's Hervey on the love rat, Fritz of Wales:

( He was indeed as false as his capacity would allow him to be )

Before I get to the next point, I should mention that Hervey, whenever he shows up in his own tale as an acting character, writes of himself in the third person, i.e. "Lord Hervey did this" or "then Lord Hervey said to the Queen", etc. A la Caesar in the Gallic Wars. Confusingly, though, he also writes in the first person - i.e. "I heard this from Sir Robert directly" or "I was present when the King said this" etc. I'm not sure whether he wanted his readers to believe a third party - an unnamed historian - was writing these memoirs; after all, he knew they wouldn't and couldn't be published within his own life time, and probably not for some time hereafter. Or maybe it was just a stylistic device, understood by readers of the time; I'm not sure, since none of the other 18th Century memoirs I've read so far employ it. (Certainly not Voltaire's.)

Okay, onwards: G2 keeps irritating his English subjects with visiting Hannover, remember. On one such visit, his English mistress, Lady Suffolk, gets married again despite being in her 40s. G2 hears about it from Caroline via letter, drags out his time in Hannover, and comes back with a German (!) mistress, Madame Waldmoden, the ultimate insult. This causes Lord Hervey to muse thusly.

( Why can't a German be more like a Brit? )

As the 1730s go on, relations between Fritz of Wales and his parents go from bad to worse. Hervey proves that modern day gossip columnists have nothing on him as he shares with his his estimation of various mistresses and the wife:

( His nose and her ear were inseparable )

Now if you think only women who have sex with Fritz of Wales are the objects of Hervey's scorn, you're mistaken. He's just as malicious about the woman who would have married Fritz of Prussia if the endless negotiations had worked out, to wit, Princess Amalie (as her mother calls her) or Emily (as Hervey calls her). The only princess Hervey likes is Princess Caroline, but as for Amalia/Emily/Amalie:

( Nobody knew her without disliking her )

But for all that Hervey doesn't like G2 and isn't much impressed with the extended family, Queen Caroline and Princess Caroline the younger aside, he drops the occasional oddly endearing anecdote as well, like the fox hunting dialogue. The Fritz of Wales bashing from him and everyone showing up in these memoirs, though, is absolutely relentless. Our Victorian editor just throws up his hands and says he has no idea just why both parents hated FoW so much even before he joined forces with the opposition and thus gave them cause, even before he arrived in England and was still a youngster in Hannover and according to visitors (including, btw, Hervey himself on his Grand Tour, writing letters home) an amiable, bright child with a lot of charm.

( Queen Caroline: Fritz' popularity makes me vomit! )

The big climax of the memoirs and their finale are Queen Caroline's death and the immediate aftermath. Hervey ends his memoirs there, and like the essay says, for all that their title refers to the reign of George II, they should really be titled "reign of Caroline", for she is the central character in his narrative. She died a terrible death.

( There never was a tale of greater woe )

And thus I wrap up my choice of quotes from the immensely entertaining memoirs of Lord Hervey, disser extraordinaire.

Current Mood: chipper
Current Location: Meran

mildred_of_midgard

Authors:

mildred_of_midgard,

selenak
Original Discussion: https://cahn.dreamwidth.org/177596.html?thread=2717116#cmt2717116

( Discussion )

mildred_of_midgard

This is a write-up by

selenak of Robert Halsband's biography Lord Hervey: Eighteenth-Century Courtier.

( Main write-up )

( Franz Stephan )

( Hervey and Algarotti )

( Hanover family drama )

( Hervey's will )

( Hervey, Vane, and Fritz of Wales )

mildred_of_midgard

This is a write-up by

selenak of Isabel Grundy's biography Lady Mary Wortley-Montagu: Comet of the Enlightenment.

( Main write-up )

( Supplements )

selenak

When last I wrote about the Ha(n)nover cousins, I had only various dictionaries and the occasional aside in Prussian-centric biographies to go by. However, due to needing to check out the non-Prussian, non-Austrian perspectives on the period, I've been browsing through "Das Europa der Könige" by Leonhard Horowski. Who is tremendosly entertaining and fantastic with unexpected cross connections. For example: future arch schemer Grumbkow shows first up as a six years old child dancing (along with other courtier children) ballet at the wedding of Fritz' grandparents, F1 and Sophie Charlotte. Meanwhile, Fritz' mother, Sophia Dorothea, also shows up as a six years old some years later, at the same table with Grumbkow's future wife (same age); she (SD) was being entertained by her mother's soon to be murdered lover Köngsmarck who build a house of cards for her and future Mrs. Grumbkow . (We know this because there are two letters mentioning this, one by a lady in waiting and one by Königsmarck himself to SD the older.) And guess who was a direct descendant of Lord Hervey, the one in a triangle with Algarotti and Lady Mary? Nancy Mitford. (And thus of course also her sisters, Diana the fascist, Decca the Communist and Unity the Hitler-Groupie.)

But most memorably, I now know more of the Hannover cousins and their dysfunction.

( Gorgeous and not so gorgeous Georgians )

Fritz of Prussia, to Mitchell: Am I glad my family is so normal and harmonious, compared to the Hannover cousins!

Current Mood: calm

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mildred_of_midgard - AITA, Rokoko Style
mildred_of_midgard - A Character of Lady Mary Hervey drawn by herself
selenak - Brian Fothergill: The Mitred Earl (Frederick Hervey)
selenak - The Life of Sir Charles Hanbury-Williams: Poet, Wit, and Diplomatist.
selenak - Hervey: The Next Generation (Augustus Hervey: Journal)
selenak - The First Iron Lady: A Life of Caroline of Ansbach
mildred_of_midgard - Hans or Joachim Heinrich von der Gröben
mildred_of_midgard - FW-G2 single combat: Sources
mildred_of_midgard - FW-G2 single combat: Emoji style
selenak - Émilie Tripled: Three reviews and some issues analyzed
selenak - Algarotti: The Anthology
mildred_of_midgard - Chesterfields, Schulenburgs, and Kattes, oh my!
selenak - Hanna Smith and Stephen Taylor: Hephaestion and Alexander
selenak - Lord Hervey: Memoirs
mildred_of_midgard - FW-G2 single combat
mildred_of_midgard - Lord Hervey
mildred_of_midgard - Lady Mary Wortley-Montagu
selenak - Carrying On With the Cousins: More about the Hannovers of Britain

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1740 and All That

Entries tagged with lord hervey

AITA, Rokoko Style

A Character of Lady Mary Hervey drawn by herself

Brian Fothergill: The Mitred Earl (Frederick Hervey)

The Life of Sir Charles Hanbury-Williams: Poet, Wit, and Diplomatist.

Hervey: The Next Generation (Augustus Hervey: Journal)

The First Iron Lady: A Life of Caroline of Ansbach

Hans or Joachim Heinrich von der Gröben

FW-G2 single combat: Sources

FW-G2 single combat: Emoji style

Émilie Tripled: Three reviews and some issues analyzed

Algarotti: The Anthology

Chesterfields, Schulenburgs, and Kattes, oh my!

Hanna Smith and Stephen Taylor: Hephaestion and Alexander

Lord Hervey: Memoirs

FW-G2 single combat

Lord Hervey

Lady Mary Wortley-Montagu

Carrying On With the Cousins: More about the Hannovers of Britain

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