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Fritz/MT Marriage Project
Sep. 12th, 2021 02:59 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mildred_of_midgardOur salon's first encounter with the Fritz/MT ship came when selenak reported on a miniseries about MT:
The Maria Theresia two parter early on has a not very historical case of Prince Eugen & Grumpkow scheming to to get those crazy kids - her and Fritz - together in a marriage alliance, difference of religion be damned, thereby solving the succession troubles, and young teenage MT basically is all "You want me to marry into that insane family with all the abuse? Thanks but no thanks, I'm marrying Franzl!"
But then,mildred_of_midgard ran across a historical case of this ship in MacDonogh!
( Fritz proposes the idea seriously )
Of course, the difference is that this was Fritz's idea, and Eugene and Seckendorf were very "WTF no" about it. We later turned up the primary source for this, in Förster's collection of correspondence:
( Förster documentation )
More primary sources in the form of letters from Fritz to Grumbkow even after he was released from Kustrin, trying to get married to MT instead of EC:
( Letters to Grumbkow )
And then we turned up a not very reliable historical figure crediting FW with the idea:
( Thiebault )
18th century authors with a dog in the fight and no access to the archives debate over whether Fritz would or would not:
( Pastor Muller's son says Fritz would NEVER! )
Zimmermann, in contrast, writing in 1790, not only thinks Fritz would but thinks Fritz *did*--at least in terms of attempting to escape in 1730 so he could marry MT.
( Zimmermann says Fritz WOULD TOO! )
But wait! Not only do we know Fritz would because of the 1731-1732 letters, but he even had the idea well before Kustrin. In 1730, Fritz told Katte he needed to escape because Seckendorff and Grumbkow were plotting to marry him to an Austrian archduchess and force him to convert to Catholicism.
( 1730 plot )
Then we turned up the primary source for Koser's claim, which turned out to be Hinrich's collection of the 1730 documents pertaining to the escape attempt.
( Hinrichs documentation )
Remember when Nicolai was interviewing Muller's son about the alleged marriage plan? He writes a response to Zimmermann's claim that Fritz tried to escape in order to marry MT.
( Nicolai makes mincemeat of Zimmermann's theory )
But even this isn't the earliest attestation of this idea. Forselenak reported this, in her write-up on Arneth's biography of Eugene:
( 1729 politicking )
Finally, it's spread out over many comments so I'm not going to reproduce it here, but you can read our speculations in 2019 about the "what-if" of Fritz and MT marrying and how that might have played out: https://cahn.dreamwidth.org/160700.html?thread=1118140#cmt1118140.
Based on new information acquired since these discussions took place,selenak had more commentary to add.
( Related rumors )
selenak reported on a miniseries about MT:The Maria Theresia two parter early on has a not very historical case of Prince Eugen & Grumpkow scheming to to get those crazy kids - her and Fritz - together in a marriage alliance, difference of religion be damned, thereby solving the succession troubles, and young teenage MT basically is all "You want me to marry into that insane family with all the abuse? Thanks but no thanks, I'm marrying Franzl!"
But then,
mildred_of_midgard ran across a historical case of this ship in MacDonogh!( Fritz proposes the idea seriously )
Of course, the difference is that this was Fritz's idea, and Eugene and Seckendorf were very "WTF no" about it. We later turned up the primary source for this, in Förster's collection of correspondence:
( Förster documentation )
More primary sources in the form of letters from Fritz to Grumbkow even after he was released from Kustrin, trying to get married to MT instead of EC:
( Letters to Grumbkow )
And then we turned up a not very reliable historical figure crediting FW with the idea:
( Thiebault )
18th century authors with a dog in the fight and no access to the archives debate over whether Fritz would or would not:
( Pastor Muller's son says Fritz would NEVER! )
Zimmermann, in contrast, writing in 1790, not only thinks Fritz would but thinks Fritz *did*--at least in terms of attempting to escape in 1730 so he could marry MT.
( Zimmermann says Fritz WOULD TOO! )
But wait! Not only do we know Fritz would because of the 1731-1732 letters, but he even had the idea well before Kustrin. In 1730, Fritz told Katte he needed to escape because Seckendorff and Grumbkow were plotting to marry him to an Austrian archduchess and force him to convert to Catholicism.
( 1730 plot )
Then we turned up the primary source for Koser's claim, which turned out to be Hinrich's collection of the 1730 documents pertaining to the escape attempt.
( Hinrichs documentation )
Remember when Nicolai was interviewing Muller's son about the alleged marriage plan? He writes a response to Zimmermann's claim that Fritz tried to escape in order to marry MT.
( Nicolai makes mincemeat of Zimmermann's theory )
But even this isn't the earliest attestation of this idea. For
selenak reported this, in her write-up on Arneth's biography of Eugene:( 1729 politicking )
Finally, it's spread out over many comments so I'm not going to reproduce it here, but you can read our speculations in 2019 about the "what-if" of Fritz and MT marrying and how that might have played out: https://cahn.dreamwidth.org/160700.html?thread=1118140#cmt1118140.
Based on new information acquired since these discussions took place,
selenak had more commentary to add.( Related rumors )
