rheinsberg | Entries tagged with ernst christoph von manteuffel

mildred_of_midgard

Authors:

selenak,

cahn
Original discussion: https://cahn.dreamwidth.org/200007.html?thread=4252999#cmt4252999

selenak: So, at fail fandom anon, they have this "am I the asshole?" meme where a fictional (usually emotionally clueless) character asks this question in universe. I thought this was made for the Hohenzollern (and many of their social circle), so, here we go:

I, m34, was just trying to look out for my bratty younger sibling, m20 - there's this ~~hot~~ guy, total prick tease, whom the brat is swooning about. I might have said the guy has STD and made fun of his everything, and now the brat isn't talking to me anymore, when I was just being concerned for his health! AITA?

I, f55, always wanted the best for my children, especially when it came to their marriages. Now my oldest daughter looks at me as if I'm a madwoman just because I told her she should treat her new husband like her brother and not have sex with him so we can still annul this wretched marriage she should never have agreed to in the first place! She knows how much this means to me, and yet she betrayed me this way, she should be grateful I'm still talking to her at all! AITA?

I should have known this would happen, but: here I am, making some money on the side while providing heroic beta-reading services and writing my own stuff and defending an unfairly attacked guy against a shitstorm - and what happens? The guy who's been hitting on me for 16 years before I finally agreed to move in with him all of a sudden leads the shitstorm, attacks me while he's at it, burns my latest masterpiece and has me arrested while complaining to all our mutual friends that IATA!!!!!

cahn: Now my oldest daughter looks at me as if I'm a madwoman just because I told her she should treat her new husband like her brother and not have sex with him so we can still annul this wretched marriage she should never have agreed to in the first place!

omg, lol SD! I am going to say, YTABPAC, an acronym I just now made up that means "you're the asshole but possibly also crazy" :) Because when you put it like that...

As for your third one, he got some replies:
(just to be complete, for mildred:
ESH = "Everyone sucks here"
YTA = "You're the asshole"
NTA = "Not the asshole")

RandomRedditAddict
I can't help thinking there are a heck of a lot of missing reasons here. How is that you "should have known" this would happen? It's a little hard to say without more details, but I'm leaning ESH on this one.

MyActualNameIsGreaterThanThis
YTA. RRAddict's post above has a great point, missing reasons galore. Maybe you were really mean and annoying and made fun of this poor guy behind his back, whose only crime was thinking you were amazing?? And, like, are you kidding me, people don't just get arrested for NO REASON. I bet there was totally a reason, like maybe you STOLE his stuff!!

selenak: So here I, m, am, having a long term affair with the love of my life (m), procreating in my marriage (with f), having an affair with a bimbo (f) on the side, and mentoring this guy who has admittedly exciting future job prospects in my non existant spare time - and then that utter bastard first has sex with the bimbo, then, when I complain about it, dumps me as an mentor! I'll never get over it! His mother totally agrees with me, but the jerk still refuses to apologize - I don't need to ask whether AITA, because I know I'm not!

Here I, m64, was, enjoying my retirement as a PRIVATE CITIZEN, mentoring a few promising young people both in my state of residence and state of (former) employement, when it occured to me that takingon one more young fellow as a protegé might result in a general improvement of affairs for a great many people due to the kid's future job prospects. Now I was intensely familiar with people in his future line of work and let me tell you, most of these are jerks, with a lot of people suffering for it. His father was one of the worst. Any improvement there was enough of an incentive to lure me out of my retirement. Now I might have used a few questionable methods at first, but those prostitutes could use the money, so could various male friends in his social circle, and also, the competitition did the same thing. For a while, we seemed to hit it off and he expanded his intellectual horizon by listening to my reading tips, but unfortunately, the combination of other influences and an admittedly ill advised photobombing let to an enstragement. Well, at least I got a golden knob for a walking stick out of it, but when the kid, once on the job, immediately initiated a hostile takeover of the worst type, I couldn't help but wonder: could I have prevented this? was I the asshole there?

I, m, am a good looking career guy who used to be a in a steady relationship with someone in the same profession. Okay, my superior, but not the ultimate boss. (Could have had him, too, back in the day, if I'd wanted.) Now, maybe I was a bit high-handed when treating most of my s.o.'s hangers-on as the parasites they were, but I was just looking out for him! I mean, we've been through years of a high stress situation together, and now that's over, he's dumping me for some younger bit of fluff? Am I supposed to take that lying down?!!!! Of course I raised holy hell, I mean, who wouldn't, and okay, maybe hitting on his wife wasn't the best tactic, but I know he's been wanting to divorce her for eons. Anyway, the point is: I've been transferred to the back of beyond while the himbo got a gorgeous estate, and I still don't know how that happened. AITA?

I, m, really want everyone to be happy, and can't help it if many of them hit on me. I also want a steady job. Somehow, this evolved into a situation where this woman whom I had pay my travelling expenses thinks we'll live together while the guy in whose house I lived is having a fit because I had dinner with her on my last evening in town. But did either of them get me the job I wanted? They did not! So what's to complain about? AITA?

Some years ago I, m, and my long term companion, f, agreed to put our relationship on a non-sexual footing. AT the time, I thought it was a good idea, what with me being often ill and also way older. Since then, however, I discovered that I still can enjoy sex with a different woman. This doesn't impact on my relationship with my long-term companion, right? I mean, since we agreed to go platonic anyway, and I'm still as attracted as ever by her mind? It's just, there's this good looking younger guy hitting on her these days, and it looks like she's attracted to him, and I can't see that going anywhere good, so I said so, and we had an almighty row, especially after she found out about my other relationship. Okay, maybe I shouldn't have said "it's not like we're married" or "ditch the he-man, he's just after your money", but was that a reason for calling me a love rat and an overrated hack?!? AITA?

I, m41, am a loving family man with a strong work ethic and good Christian values. All I want is for my family to share those, especially my oldest son. To that end, I appointed him the best teachers, ensured he's always supervised and thus does not feel neglected, and spared him the awful stupid lessons I had to endure as a kid. Like Latin and ancient history. All I want in return is for him to be exactly like me, is this too much to ask? But no. He keeps grimacing when I'm around, ridicules all I hold dear, keeps lying to me, gets into debts and in general shows every sign of becoming the kind of lazy slob bound to ruin my life's work! So naturally I took counter measures. Some of them might have been drastic, like sending bad influences away and dragging him in front of two armies, but they were for his own good! Anyone could see that! And now the kid has humilated me in front of Europe by trying to run away, even conspiring with my own employes in order to do so. I might have overreacted when telling his mother he was dead, slapping his sister and telling him his mother doesn't care anymore, but I don't think so. It's just, my other kid, who's usually good as gold, now doesn't want to join my favourite profession anymore. AITA?

cahn:

DerAlteD
NTA. Kid should be more grateful. Maybe the problem is that he doesn't really see how much you do for him. I bet more family time would help, bring him to your nights out with the guys or whatever you do for fun. Or find him a nice girl! That's what he needs. Bonus is that your other kid will see all this and realize that the male authority figures really do know best.

pastorb
Depends on what you mean by "bad influences" -- I hope you're not trying to totally cut him off from his friends, that would be YTA territory for sure.

BearsAreNotTheAnswer
YTA. I just feel like if someone wants to run away, then that's your answer right there, you know?

selenak

The "Rothschild" in the title made me a bit wary because invoking the Rothschilds was such a popular antisemitic slander (these days, it's more George Soros who gets drafted for the same type of insinuation), but whatever else this book is, it's not antisemitic. In fact, even when the 7 Years War Fritzian war crimes complete with coin clipping are invoked, the author doesn't, as opposed to, say, Poniatowski in his memoirs, connects this with some antijudaistic slurs. Which doesn't mean the author doesn't have other axes to grind, because boy, does he ever. (More in a second.) But as this book is a passionate Brühl defense, "Rothschild" was - like Medici and Richelieu - meant as a compliment, signifying rich patron of the arts (in addition to master politician etc.).

Now, about those axes. Here's my experience reading the preface (as is my wont, and how we've discovered many an interesting thing, including Henri de Catt, RPF writer.)

( AvB: How WWI could have been avoided: by MT winning the 7 Years War )

( General overview of the biography )

Okay, on to details.

( Portrait of the Brühl as a young man )

( 1730s Diplomacy: Send Tall Guys )

( Ulrich von Suhm: Trusted Brühl Envoy and Master of Realpolitik )

( Time Warp: Remember Manteuffel bribing courtiers and prostitutes? )

( Brühl and MT during Silesia 1 and 2: He wasn't sure she was serious! )

( Brühl sponsors the Arts in Peace Time and plots the Diplomatic Revolution )

( Fritz destroys Saxony and Brühl's reputation )

selenak

Reading through Aladàr von Boroviczény's biography of Saxon PM and Fritzian arch enemy Heinrich von Brühl, I came across some statements regarding former Saxon foreign minister Karl Heinrich von Hoym, the reasons for his downfall and his relationship with future Frederick the Great which merited a salon investigation. The results of which can be found here.

AvB wrote in his Brühl biography when discussing the mid 1730s: Yet another important information arrived at this time, which was confirmed by the Imperial Envoy Count Wratislaw: Crown Prince Friedrich had taken up his old secret relationship with the former Saxon minister Count Heinrich Karl Hoym and promised him an important role after his accession to the throne. Hoym thus was arrested on Brühl's orders at his estate on Dec. 18th 1735 and transferred to Königstein.
Hoym had been Saxon-Polish envoy in Paris in the years 1720 - 1729 and had been promoted to Cabinet Minister upo9n the death of Count Christoph Heinrich Watzdorf on September 3rd 1729. On March 23rd 1731, August the Strong had dismissed him in disgrace and banished to his estates. Now he got accused on 18 different matters, mainly because of disobedience towards the King, the illegal opening of letters, and corruption. Furtherly he got accused of having been informed of the desertion plans of Crown Prince Friedrich at the camp in Zeithain by a primary source, and having kept this information secret, and furtherly, that he betrayed the manufacturing secrets of Meissen porceillain to France.

Now, the fact that Friedrich approached Hoym during the Zeithain camp in 1730, trying to win his support for an escape, is amply documented; you can read Katte's description of it here, with the caveat that this is Katte's testimony months later when needing to emphasize how very reluctant his own and everyone else's support for the entire escape idea was because he still hopes not to die at this point of the interrogation. However, this inconclusive contact during Zeithain as well as the claim that Friedrich years later reconnected with Hoym as reasons for Hoym's downfall was news to us. As AvB thankfully provided footnotes for these claims and therefore sources: See about this Beyrich, a.a.O. S. 117 ff. and "Vie de Charles Henry Comte de Hoym, Ambassadeur de Saxe-POlogne en France, et celèbre amateur de livres, 1694 - 1736, par le Baron Jeromes Pichon, publié par la Ste des Bibliophiles Francais, Paris 1880, Tome 1, Chap. III, page 71 - 141.

( Pichon: Hoym was framed! In 18 counts of accusation! )

( Beyrich: Fritz had Hoym earmarked for future employment! So says Grumbkow! )

mildred_of_midgard then went to the Dresden State Archive:

( Brühl: Hoym offered Fritz his services, but saying so out loud will get us into hot water with the Prussians )

( Salon: we're still amazed Hoym got locked up for this and Suhm gets trusted with super secret negotiations )

selenak

Dr. Carl von Weber's "Aus vier Jahrhunderten: Mitteilungen aus dem Hauipt-Staatsarchiv zu Dresden", Leipzig 1857 contains a detailed writing up of the utterly bonkers Clement (or Klement) affair. Weber, being a mid 19th century fellow, doesn't yet have acccess to the Secret Prussian State Archive, but he does have access to the Saxon one, which offers plenty of material on one of the 18th century's most successful con men.

( Klement trades Racoczky for Prince Eugene: was there a plan to make FW King of Hungary? )

( Klement trades Eugene for Flemming: was there a plan to make Eugene King of Spain? )

( Klement trades Flemming for FW: A terrible conspiracy gets reported! )

cahn: Was Klement a tall man?

mildred_of_midgard

This is a snapshot of 1720s foreign policy, geared toward providing a context for answering the question of what happens when a runaway Prussian crown prince shows up in France in 1730.

Decision-making Characters

In this section, I'm talking about some characters that will be relevant to the decision-making process about a Prussian crown prince seeking asylum.

They're French, because this was researched for a fictional AU (unwritten) in which Fritz shows up in France.

( Cardinal Fleury )

( Chauvelin )

( Rottembourg )

International relations

( Britain-France )

( Britain-Austria )

( Britain-Spain )

( Britain-Bavaria )

( Britain-Prussia )

( Austria-Spain )

( Austria-France )

( Austria-Prussia )

( France-Spain )

( Netherlands )

( Russia )

Diplomacy

These are SOME of the relevant treaties made in our period.

1725: Treaty of Vienna
1725: Treaty of Hanover
1726: Treaty of Wusterhausen
1727: Preliminaries of Paris
1728: Peace of Pardo
1729: Treaty of Seville
1731: Treaty of Vienna
1733: Bourbon Family Compact

( 1725: Treaty of Vienna )

( 1725: Treaty of Hanover )

( 1726: Treaty of Wusterhausen )

( 1727: Preliminaries of Paris )

( 1728: Peace of Pardo )

( 1729: Treaty of Seville )

( 1731: Treaty of Vienna )

( 1733: Bourbon Family Compact )

( FW, awkward negotiator )

Salon Discussion

( Saxony )

selenak

I first took notice of Jean Des Champs (also spelled Dechamps, or Deschamps in various sources, just to make our researching life easier) in the context of Bronisch's Manteuffel dissertation, where his fate in the Fritz/Manteuffel fallout gets quickly summarized here. It's mentioned that he wrote memoirs, and given Bronisch mentioned Des Champs getting stiffed and ridiculed, these sounded like potential sensational gossip, so when Mildred discovered they were avaiable at the Munich Stabi, I read them. Or to be more precise, I read the lengthy introduction and skimmed the main text, for alas, other than the English introduction, it's an edition in the original (French) language, edited and published by the Huguenot Society of GB and Ireland. However, the, there is the really long introduction which feels like an English summary of the memoirs themselves, complete with translated into English quotes from same. Said introduction being more of a lengthy summary than a foreword is really noticeable, since the introduction writer (and presumably translator), Uta Janssens-Knorsch, takes all of Des Champs' presentations of his life on faith, which can be hilarious when it comes to Manteuffel (called a "son of Apollo" and only present as a patron of the art, which means that Fritz kicking him out of the country for no reason at all is just incomprehensibly; Des Champs explanation why he himself correspondended with Seckendorff Jr the diary writer BUT NOT LIKE THAT and only an evil scheme made it look that way to Fritz, thus ruining his, Des Champs' reputation is also something to behold), but is a problem when it comes to Fredersdorf, because lo and behold, near their end Des Champs' Memoirs finally present us with a contemporary account of someone charging Fredersdorf with embezzlement (to wit, Des Champs, claiming Fredersdorf kept his, Des Champs, salary, and that of others, and Fritz just refuses making Fredersdorf's heirs pay said salary because he'd then have to pay everyone else's stuff that Fredersdorf embezzled as well). The introduction quotes both a letter from Des Champs to Fritz and statements from Abraham Michell (aka the the Swiss guy who worked as Prussia's sort of envoy in London instead of Peter Keith, if you recall) to Des Champs (via his brother) to that effect, but both the letter and the Michell statements are sourced from the Memoirs themselves, not from other archives. (I.e. Des Champs claims "I wrote" and "Michell told me", we don't have, it seems the original documents.) Still, we have to acknowledge now the claim does exist by a contemporary source. I'll discuss the context and reliability below.

But back to the beginning, as summarized in the English introduction.

( Jean Des Champs: Biographical pre-Fritz background )

Since Des Champs is now 29 and badly in need of a steady job, he accepts the post of steady employment, so he accepts when Fritz offers him the position of chaplain at Rheinsberg, which he starts in February 1737.

( The Rheinsberg Years, or: I DID NOT SPY FOR THE AUSTRIANS; THEY FRAMED ME! )

( The Berlin Years, or: How Frederick the Great got me to tutor his brothers, stiffed me of a salary and made fun of me through a play )

( My efforts to get my money from Fritz and Fredersdorf: The aftermath )

Like I said: I've only read the introduction. But it does provide us with a few questions.

( The Salon debates )

mildred_of_midgard

Having just reread the Suhm letters, here are my observations.

( Suhm letters )

selenak

Gustav Volz' anthology "Gespräche" which is in our library contains Volz' combination of two French reports on Friedrich's' 1740 attempt at an incognito journey to France which ended prematurely in Straßburg/Strassbourg, that of the Marquis de Valfons, who was a captain in the local regiment, and that of the overall CEO Broglie's report as given on August 26th 1740, i.e. a day after it happened , for his superiors in Paris. A reminder on Broglie: not the one from the 7 Years War, but but this one, his father.

Volz is conscientious about his sources, so he tells us via footnote that the Marquis de Valfons' report is from "Souvenirs du marquis de Valfons", S. 50 ff, Paris 1860, while Boglie's report was printed in the "Archives de la Bastille, BD. XIII, S. 195 ff, Paris 1881.

Having read them now: worst incognito traveller ever! Also, no arrest, unless Broglie is being lying. The date: 23 - 25th August 1740.

( How to not travel under an alias if you don't want to be outed by the French )

felis then unearthed other reports on those Strassbourg/Straßburg days, including one from Manteuffel of all the people, which led to a lively salon debate, not least because we were curious who Le Diable's source among the travellers might have been.

( How fast can you send secret spy reports from Straßburg to Berlin anyway? )

selenak

Thea von Seydewitz' " Ernst Christoph Graf von Manteuffel, Kabinettsminister Augusts des Starken. Persönlichkeit und Wirken (Aus Sachsens Vergangenheit 5), Dresden 1926 filled in those gaps about Manteuffel's political career, for the first explained to me where the weird "that time Grumbkow was in a scheme to assassinate FW" story from Wilhelmine's memoirs hails from, actually mentions Suhm a couple of times, and does a good job presenting a picture of its subject based on the sources available at the time (which include Other Seckendorff's diary, since this was published in 1926).

On the downside, there's that early 20th century... everything. She's not as nationalistic as, say, Richter, and thankfully there isn't an anti semitic remark in sight, but between describing the German nobility's habit of raising their kids bilingual, with French as the dominating language, which is described as "unfortunate" at the beginning and in her final "Manteuffel: Pros and Cons" summary listing as a pro that he tried to wrest Fritz out of the arms of the perfidious French (that's one way of putting it...), you definitely get the impression she didn't care for our neighbour across the Rhine. (Not withstanding presenting all the longer quotes in French and translating only the shorter ones in to German, which means I still haven't worked my way through the longer quotes.) She also while noting Manteuffel had a pretty good idea of the genius that was Fritz regrets he didn't quite realize the genius that was misunderstood FW, allowing the Tall Guys fetish and some of the "rougher" attitudes to blind Manteuffel for his true greatness.

Oh, and then there's this bit which made me go ????.

Seydewitz: Wilhelmine says Manteuffel and Frau von Blaspiel were lovers, but her memoirs aren't always reliable, and also Wilhelmine is a malicious gossip.

Self: Okay?

Seydewitz: Though Manteuffel was totally in love with Blaspiel. In fact, she may have been the only woman he truly loved, as evidenced in this lengthy French passage from a letter of his to Flemming which I'll now quote. All his other relationships with women were shallow or, like his marriage, for money and continuation of the family, but he was really into this one.

Self: So what is the malicious gossip part of Wilhelmine's take on the relationship again?

(Probable reason, though I'm speculating here in letting our author reply: Seydewitz: Sex. Just because he loved her and she loved him, there's no proof they ever had it. They were both married, after all. Wilhelmine says they were lovers, thus insinuating they had sex.)

With this advance warning and with an emphasis on the parts of Manteuffel's life not already covered by Bronisch (i.e. no Wolff saga, he had that investigated much more thoroughly than Seydewitz does here), let's have a look and the life and times of Le Diable: the political side.

( Family background )

( Finding a mentor and a first job: something is rotten in the state of Denmark )

( Manteuffel as Saxon envoy in Berlin )

Hanging out with August directly means more drinking, so it's a good thing Manteuffel is FW-trained by now. It also means not handing over a note from one of August's many one night stands to August when he's in the company of the current Maitresse en titre, Countess Dönhoff. And it means working towards an ever closer Saxony-Prussia-Austria alliance within the HRE, a long term goal which sufferes a temporary heavy blow when the Clement Affair happens in 1719. Which is when I get my explanation as to where Wilhelmine got her story about a near FW assassination from. Not, as I guessed, from Mom, or not only; most likely, she got it from Dad. How so? Well, brace yourself. It's going to be wild ride...

( The Utterly Bonkers Clement Affair )

( Founding of a Society againt Sobriety and Fall of a Minister )

( How to infiltrate the social circle of a Crown Prince )

Bronisch covered the rest. Three things in Seydewitz which he either didn't mention, or not in detail, or I skipped re: the Manteuffel/Fritz breakup in the fall of 1736:

( Possible breakup factors )

Oh, one more Seydewitz trivia: she claims Manteuffel was nominated by Fritz of Wales to the Royal Society in the 1740s. I'm going to trust the latest Andrew Mitchell dissertation has done its homework on this and that it was Andrew M., not Fritz of Wales. At any event, she says this does show that while Manteuffel was not a power factor anymore in the 1740s, he had become a name in the world of letters and scholars. Also, while a lousy husband, he had his daughters (his sole son didn't survive; the title went to a distant relation he adopted) educated very well and the surviving letters show he enjoyed debating with them on a high level. Basically, Manteuffel in his silver fox years comes across as good with young people in general (see also Formey still being starry eyed about him decades later), only with Fritz he'd bitten off more than he could chew.

selenak

"Der Mäzen der Aufklärung: Ernst Christoph von Manteuffel und das Netzwerk des Wolffianismus" was Johannes Bronisch's doctoral thesis and reads like it - aimed at a strictly academic audience, long footnotes at times taking most of the page space etc - , while "Der Kampf um Kronprinz Friedrich: Wolff gegen Voltaire" is basically a canny Fritz-focused digested excerpt from it, repacked for a larger audience (though it's still clearly not for newbies who know nothing of the 18th century). Before I get into details, let me add what his dissertation is not, and doesn't claim to be: a biography of Manteuffel. The emphasis here is strictly on him in the context of his philosophical and literary networking from 1730 onwards (why 1730? Not for the reason you think), with his entire decades long life and career before that only summarized. This frustrated me a little, as I'd hoped for more of a complete life, but that's on me, the key is in the title(s), and also, I do know more about Manteuffel even before 1730 than I used to through the summarzing. (Also, courtesy of the footnotes, I know there is an early 20th century Manteuffel biography: Thea von Seydewitz: Ernst Christoph Graf von Manteuffel, Kabinettsminister Augusts des Starken. Persönlichkeit und Wirken (Aus Sachsens Vergangenheit 5), Dresden 1926, which Bronisch by and large approves of for its research but chides for its emphasis (on Manteuffel the politician) which he seeks to rectify by presenting Manteuffel the enlightenment networker and cultural beacon, though inevitably there are politics involved there, too.) (See other title.) Another thing: Bronish praises older Fritzian historians like Koser and Droysen for their never again matched knowledge of primary sources as well me might, but that also means he relies on them for the Prussian side of things, which means the occasional blip like poor Gundling still showing up as the court fool made head of the academy.

Sir not appearing in either volume at all (seriously, no single mention, not even in the footnotes): Suhm. Seriously, Bronisch not only apparently had zero interest in the other Saxon envoy but doesn't think he's a factor in any way in his subject. (The titular fight from the canny repackage is carried out by French envoy La Chetardie and Voltaire as the main opponents to Manteuffel and Wolff.)

Okay, on to Mantteuffel, or, as the Imperial Secret Service with their idea of discretion codenamed him: Le Diable.

( He's a man of wealth and taste: Rise of a Sugar Daddy )

( Enter Voltaire, followed by Pyrrhic victory for Wolff )

( The aftermath )

selenak

A primary source we've stumbled across recently is the "Journal Secrete" by the Baron of Seckendorff. Just to make things a bit more confusing for the Frederician scholar, journal writer Seckendorff, Imperial diplomat at the court of FW from 1734 - 1737, is not, I repeat, not identical with Friedrich Heinrich von Seckendorff, Field Marshal, Diplomat, previous imperial envoy and schemer extraordinaire at the Prussian Court in the later 1720s and up 1732. This more famous Seckendorff usually shows up in tandem with FW's war minister Grumbkow as a semi-villainous double act in Wilhelmine's memoirs, and in most early biographies from Fritz' pov. Seckendorff the younger, the journal writer, is his nephew, Christoph Ludwig von Seckendorff.

Not surprisingly given he's being an envoy at a court whose king once had threatened to hang another envoy, Seckendorff the younger often uses code names in his journal. (It's not paranoia when they're really after you.) Though they're usually none too subtle. Junior = Fritz. (Yes, really. It sounds anachronistic, but isn't.) Olympia = Queen Sophia Dorothea, his mother. Biberius = Grumbkow. "Le Diable", i.e. "The Devil" = Manteuffel, currently the Saxon envoy, also on the Austrian payroll and supposed to get close to Fritz and spy on him for the Iimperials. Orondates = Joseph Wenzel, Prince of Liechtenstein, curent official Imperial envoy in Berlin, and also current owner of that same Antinous statue Fritz will aquire later.

Language: the diary is written in a mixture between French and German, about two thirds French, one third German, sometimes switching between paragraphs and quotes. Fritz is usually quoted in French, his father in German. A typical untranslated diary entry reads thusly:

Fréderic Wartensleben me raconte des particularités de Potsdam. Der König ist gesund, sagt er, wünscht zu sterben und hernach wieder auf zustehen, um die Veränderung mit anzusehen. Alexandre veut parier sa tête, que Junior n'a pas donné commission à Lichtenstein, de m'éloigner d'ici. Der Kronprinz hält mich vor unconversabel.

(Attempted translation into English: "Friedrich Wartensleben told me of the Potsdam oddities. The King is healthy, he says, wishes to die and to resurrect, in order to get to watch the changes. Alexander wants to bet his head on Junior not having given Lichtenstein the comission to get rid of me. The crown prince doesn't consider me worthy of conversation.")

With these explanations made, onwards to Seckendorff the younger's intel on dysfunctional Prussian royalty. Manteuffel did manage to become a part of Fritz' social circle, and duly reported on him. According to the German editor of the Trier letter archive, Fritz was aware of this at least in the later 1730s. Whether or not he already was aware of it when he makes the following statements to the guy, I leave to you to judge. But on page 144,ff July 2nd 1736: Mantteuffel - le Diable - reports that Fritz after dinner after showing him "all the tendernesses imaginable", took him into his room afterwards and there confided in him about his family.

( Fritz tells all: My parents, the siblings and me )

Seckendorff the Younger might not get overly chummy with Fritz himself, but he has other sources in addition to Manteuffel, and besides, the Hohenzollern are crazy enougoh that new stories write themselves nearly every day. While our diary writer has his own axe to grind (he doesn't seem to keen on his superior Liechtenstein). But what his boss in Vienna is most interested in is what the hell is going on with Fritz and his family. What kind of King will he be, if he ever makes it to the throne?

( Liars trying to outfox liars, or: did FW expect Frederick the Great? )

Evidently, Mantteuffel got instructions to dig a little more into Junior's sex life. No, not that way. (We think?)

( When Spys Play Marriage Counsellors )

Current Mood: calm

Profile

rheinsberg

June 2025

S	M	T	W	T	F	S
1	2	3	4	5	6	7
8	9	10	11	12	13	14
15	16	17	18	19	20	21
22	23	24	25	26	27	28
29	30

Syndicate

Page Summary

Style Credit

Style: Neutral Good for Practicality by timeasmymeasure

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags

Page generated Jun. 13th, 2025 01:37 am

1740 and All That

Entries tagged with ernst christoph von manteuffel

AITA, Rokoko Style

Aladàr von Boroviczény: Graf von Brühl. Der Medici, Richelieu und Rothschild seiner Zeit. (1930)

Downfall of a Saxon: Who's to blame?

The Utterly Bonkers Klement Affair: The Saxon Version

1730 European snapshot

Trending topics

Decision-making Characters

International relations

Diplomacy

Salon Discussion

Jean Des Champs: Man of Feeling (and his Memoires Secretes)

Suhm letters, redux

The 1740 Strassbourg Trip

Le Diable: The Political Biography

Le Diable Squared (Review of two books by Johannes Bronisch starring Manteuffel)

The Austrian Dossier: The Seckendorff Files

Profile

June 2025

Links

Syndicate

Most Popular Tags

Page Summary

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags