Saxon Envoys and Russian Threesomes
Mar. 27th, 2021 03:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mildred_of_midgard posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
rheinsbergCast
Moritz Karl zu Lynar: A Saxon ambassador. Succeeds Suhm at Berlin, precedes Suhm at St. Petersburg, and succeeds Suhm at St. Petersburg.
Anna Leopoldovna: Russian regent 1740-1741. Niece of Anna Ivanova, mother of and regent for Ivan VI, wife of Anton Ulrich of Brunswick, who was Elizabeth Christina's older brother (and thus Fritz's brother-in-law).
When Lynar was ambassador to St. Petersburg the first time, he was having an affair with Anna Leopoldovna, then believed to be next in line to the throne. Court intrigues forced him out in 1736. His replacement was Suhm.
mildred_of_midgard's findings:
German, Russian, and English Wikipedia agree on Anna/Lynar and that Lynar was married to Julia Mengden, Anna's lady in waiting and royal favorite. Then they diverge.
English wiki:
Anna's love life took up much time, as the bisexual Anna was involved simultaneously in what were described as "passionate" affairs with the Saxon ambassador Count Moritz zu Lynar and her lady-in-waiting Mengden. Anna's husband did his best to ignore the affairs. After becoming regent, Anton was marginalised, being forced to sleep in another palace while Anna took either Lynar, Mengden or both to bed with her. At times the grand duke would appear to complain about being "cuckolded", but he was always sent away. At one point, Anna proposed to have Lynar marry Mengden in order to unite the two people closest to her in the world together.
German wiki: Anna encouraged the affair of Lynar with Mengden because it gave Anna a cover story to spend time with her lady-in-waiting's husband.
Russian wiki: Mengden/Anton Ulrich! Also, "intriguingly, Julia Mengden facilitated Anna's affair with Lynar by providing her rooms for their affairs." (No mention of threesomes, presumably because Russia officially doesn't have people attracted to the same sex in their country.)
Again, Anton Ulrich, I say: I hope all that philosophy helps! [ETA: Oh, it should go without saying that I'm headcanoning English wiki, because it at least cites modern French scholarship, I don't trust the Russian wiki not to be explicitly homophobic, and while Mengden may have been getting it on with both the regent and her husband, that may also have been a story that was made up during homophobic times.]
Also, another unhappy marriage by a Brunswick to a foreign royal who ignored them to spend time with their same-sex favorites (although also opposite-sex in Anna's case, which is possibly related to how Anton's marriage managed to produce a bunch of kids, unlike EC's).
...Makes me rethink what life in prison together must have been like. :/
Ooh, the Julia Mengden wiki page article tells me she voluntarily followed Anna Leopoldovna to prison, but when the family was sent to remote Russia in 1744, Mengden was left behind in the old prison. :( At least Catherine let her go when she became Tsarina in 1762 (as not being remotely a threat, I assume).
Also, dang, apparently I had misremembered the details of Lynar! He actually did make it to St. Petersburg in time to replace Suhm and enjoy being the regent's lover, then in 1741 he was traveling back to Saxony to ask permission to leave Saxon service and enter Russian service. (!!) He made it to Dresden, got permission, and he was on his way back when Elizaveta's coup happened. And then the Saxons asked the Russians if they still wanted Lynar, they said no, and so the Saxons kept Lynar in Dresden and Königsberg. Lynar apparently hated Russia for the rest of his life. Given what happened to his lover, I can believe it!
Wow, this is amazing.
1740: Saxon envoy to Russia Suhm requests permission to leave Saxon service so he can be with his royal love. The Saxons grant it. On his way there, he dies.
1741: Saxon envoy to Russia Lynar requests permission to leave Saxon service so he can be with his royal love. The Saxons grant it. On his way there, he finds out his lover has been taken prisoner. They never see each other again.
One, August III is really chill! Can you imagine if two successive Fritzian envoys wanted to leave his service to be with their royal love? Don't worry, August, you'll get your revenge in the 1750s when thousands of conscripted Saxons desert Fritz's service en masse! A Pyrrhic victory, but still.
Two, what is it about Saxon envoys?? :P
selenak: As a dedicated watcher of Sachsens Glanz und Preußens Gloria, the reply to the second question is simple: Saxons are the sexiest! They have practice, what with Saxon politics always involving lots of affairs, and so no one can resist them! Only Swiss spies are as sexy and irrestable.
August III.: I just want everyone to be happy and get along.
His very ambitious ministers duking it out: We don't.
Don't worry, August, you'll get your revenge in the 1750s when thousands of conscripted Saxons desert Fritz's service en masse! A Pyrrhic victory, but still.
Loooong before that, sexy Italian Algarotti deserts Fritz for the fleshpots of Saxony in 1741. :)
Sigh about Russian wiki. Yeah, the reason alas is obvious. As for German wiki, I note it's generally more conservative in 18th century articles (see also Lady Mary/Hervey/Algarotti triangle and the different presentations thereof), but that's because it all too often takes its info from copyright free 19th century publications. When they don't, such as when writing about the wild history of the Casanova memoirs and their translations/bowdlerizations, this is less of a problem, and of course articles about modern bi or gay people are different.
Poor Anton Ulrich.
the Julia Mengden wiki page article tells me she voluntarily followed Anna Leopoldovna to prison, but when the family was sent to remote Russia in 1744, Mengden was left behind in the old prison. :( At least Catherine let her go when she became Tsarina in 1762 (as not being remotely a threat, I assume).
No one could raise a rebellion in Julia Mengden's name. (The biographies gave me the impression that Catherine's cruelties weren't, as a rule, pointless. But woe to you if you were in any way a possible candidate for the throne, no matter how unlikely, given she's someone with absolutely zero blood right on it and knows by personal example that coup staging can be done.) Back to Julia Mengden, though; her going with Anna initially does make it sound like true love.
Oh, and if we're listing Saxon envoys to Russia and royal loves - may I remind you who also was one? Poniatowski, after he couldn't be Charles Hanbury-Williams' Legation secretary anymore.
In conclusion, Saxon envoys clearly are the sexiest.
Algarotti: Let me put in a good word for British envoys, since one of them was the tastiest dish to me.....
Moritz Karl zu Lynar: A Saxon ambassador. Succeeds Suhm at Berlin, precedes Suhm at St. Petersburg, and succeeds Suhm at St. Petersburg.
Anna Leopoldovna: Russian regent 1740-1741. Niece of Anna Ivanova, mother of and regent for Ivan VI, wife of Anton Ulrich of Brunswick, who was Elizabeth Christina's older brother (and thus Fritz's brother-in-law).
When Lynar was ambassador to St. Petersburg the first time, he was having an affair with Anna Leopoldovna, then believed to be next in line to the throne. Court intrigues forced him out in 1736. His replacement was Suhm.
mildred_of_midgard's findings:German, Russian, and English Wikipedia agree on Anna/Lynar and that Lynar was married to Julia Mengden, Anna's lady in waiting and royal favorite. Then they diverge.
English wiki:
Anna's love life took up much time, as the bisexual Anna was involved simultaneously in what were described as "passionate" affairs with the Saxon ambassador Count Moritz zu Lynar and her lady-in-waiting Mengden. Anna's husband did his best to ignore the affairs. After becoming regent, Anton was marginalised, being forced to sleep in another palace while Anna took either Lynar, Mengden or both to bed with her. At times the grand duke would appear to complain about being "cuckolded", but he was always sent away. At one point, Anna proposed to have Lynar marry Mengden in order to unite the two people closest to her in the world together.
German wiki: Anna encouraged the affair of Lynar with Mengden because it gave Anna a cover story to spend time with her lady-in-waiting's husband.
Russian wiki: Mengden/Anton Ulrich! Also, "intriguingly, Julia Mengden facilitated Anna's affair with Lynar by providing her rooms for their affairs." (No mention of threesomes, presumably because Russia officially doesn't have people attracted to the same sex in their country.)
Again, Anton Ulrich, I say: I hope all that philosophy helps! [ETA: Oh, it should go without saying that I'm headcanoning English wiki, because it at least cites modern French scholarship, I don't trust the Russian wiki not to be explicitly homophobic, and while Mengden may have been getting it on with both the regent and her husband, that may also have been a story that was made up during homophobic times.]
Also, another unhappy marriage by a Brunswick to a foreign royal who ignored them to spend time with their same-sex favorites (although also opposite-sex in Anna's case, which is possibly related to how Anton's marriage managed to produce a bunch of kids, unlike EC's).
...Makes me rethink what life in prison together must have been like. :/
Ooh, the Julia Mengden wiki page article tells me she voluntarily followed Anna Leopoldovna to prison, but when the family was sent to remote Russia in 1744, Mengden was left behind in the old prison. :( At least Catherine let her go when she became Tsarina in 1762 (as not being remotely a threat, I assume).
Also, dang, apparently I had misremembered the details of Lynar! He actually did make it to St. Petersburg in time to replace Suhm and enjoy being the regent's lover, then in 1741 he was traveling back to Saxony to ask permission to leave Saxon service and enter Russian service. (!!) He made it to Dresden, got permission, and he was on his way back when Elizaveta's coup happened. And then the Saxons asked the Russians if they still wanted Lynar, they said no, and so the Saxons kept Lynar in Dresden and Königsberg. Lynar apparently hated Russia for the rest of his life. Given what happened to his lover, I can believe it!
Wow, this is amazing.
1740: Saxon envoy to Russia Suhm requests permission to leave Saxon service so he can be with his royal love. The Saxons grant it. On his way there, he dies.
1741: Saxon envoy to Russia Lynar requests permission to leave Saxon service so he can be with his royal love. The Saxons grant it. On his way there, he finds out his lover has been taken prisoner. They never see each other again.
One, August III is really chill! Can you imagine if two successive Fritzian envoys wanted to leave his service to be with their royal love? Don't worry, August, you'll get your revenge in the 1750s when thousands of conscripted Saxons desert Fritz's service en masse! A Pyrrhic victory, but still.
Two, what is it about Saxon envoys?? :P
selenak: As a dedicated watcher of Sachsens Glanz und Preußens Gloria, the reply to the second question is simple: Saxons are the sexiest! They have practice, what with Saxon politics always involving lots of affairs, and so no one can resist them! Only Swiss spies are as sexy and irrestable.August III.: I just want everyone to be happy and get along.
His very ambitious ministers duking it out: We don't.
Don't worry, August, you'll get your revenge in the 1750s when thousands of conscripted Saxons desert Fritz's service en masse! A Pyrrhic victory, but still.
Loooong before that, sexy Italian Algarotti deserts Fritz for the fleshpots of Saxony in 1741. :)
Sigh about Russian wiki. Yeah, the reason alas is obvious. As for German wiki, I note it's generally more conservative in 18th century articles (see also Lady Mary/Hervey/Algarotti triangle and the different presentations thereof), but that's because it all too often takes its info from copyright free 19th century publications. When they don't, such as when writing about the wild history of the Casanova memoirs and their translations/bowdlerizations, this is less of a problem, and of course articles about modern bi or gay people are different.
Poor Anton Ulrich.
the Julia Mengden wiki page article tells me she voluntarily followed Anna Leopoldovna to prison, but when the family was sent to remote Russia in 1744, Mengden was left behind in the old prison. :( At least Catherine let her go when she became Tsarina in 1762 (as not being remotely a threat, I assume).
No one could raise a rebellion in Julia Mengden's name. (The biographies gave me the impression that Catherine's cruelties weren't, as a rule, pointless. But woe to you if you were in any way a possible candidate for the throne, no matter how unlikely, given she's someone with absolutely zero blood right on it and knows by personal example that coup staging can be done.) Back to Julia Mengden, though; her going with Anna initially does make it sound like true love.
Oh, and if we're listing Saxon envoys to Russia and royal loves - may I remind you who also was one? Poniatowski, after he couldn't be Charles Hanbury-Williams' Legation secretary anymore.
In conclusion, Saxon envoys clearly are the sexiest.
Algarotti: Let me put in a good word for British envoys, since one of them was the tastiest dish to me.....
