mildred_of_midgard: (Default)
[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard
[personal profile] selenak asked what would have happened if Maria Theresia had taken up Fritz's offer of Silesia in return for defence of her realm against the rest of Europe. In the course of some lengthy speculation, we ended up writing down a lot of what actually did happen. Here are the notes on the factual parts. See the thread linked to for the speculative parts.

[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard: Part of the reason MT was able to come off so well, holding on to everything apart from Silesia, was the same reason Prussia was able to survive the Seven Years' War: Having four enemies doesn't mean they're all super into supporting each others' land grabs. Fritz specifically wanted to keep France, Bavaria, and Saxony from getting too powerful in Germany. Or as Macaulay put it, "He had no wish to raise France to supreme power on the continent, at the expense of the house of Hapsburg. His first object was to rob the Queen of Hungary. His second was that, if possible, nobody should rob her but himself."

Macaulay actually said that before Fritz invaded, it was looking like Europe would respect the Pragmatic Sanction, and that there wouldn't have been a war of the Austrian Succession without him. I was skeptical at the time, but now having dug more into the internal politics of each country, I'm less skeptical. Saxony and France each have reasons not to go to war over Habsburg territory. Bavaria's unlikely to act alone. Spain would have gone to war regardless, but only in Italy. Russia was in support of Austria and the Pragmatic Sanction (and, like, genuinely, not reluctantly),

[personal profile] selenak: One reason why MT - who, it‘s always worth pointing out, was the first female Habsburg to rule not as a regent for a male monarch but as a monarch in her own right - managed to have her authority accepted in her own realms was that nobility and people alike could see she didn‘t fold, that she didn‘t flee, that she wasn‘t dominated by a favourite and/or her husband. As Rillinger points out, the caricatures during the first two Silesian Wars show the changing public perception - at first you have the misogynistic ones, some even with rape imagery (not disapproving of the rapists), and she’s a damsel crying for help, whereas later you have her wearing the proverbial pants instead. I‘m also thinking of all the envoy reports by Podewils between Silesian Wars saying MT is now bossing everyone around and thus showing what‘s under the „attacked woman“ mask. (Meaning she acts like any other male monarch, I suppose.) Would people have let themselves be ordered if she hadn‘t stood up to Fritz? Female rulers perceived as „weak“ usually don‘t end up ruling long.

Saxony )
France )
More France notes )
Spain )

Bonus Fleury quote describing Fritz during this period:

I confess that the king of Prussia, who is not in this situation [of not being rich or powerful enough for a land grab, like Bavaria], disquiets me more than any other. He has no order in his disposition: he listens to no counsel and takes his resolutions thoughtlessly, without having previously prepared measures suitable for success. Good faith and sincerity are not his favourite virtues and he is false in everything, even in his caresses. I even doubt whether he is sure in his alliances, because he has for guiding principle only his own interest. He will wish to govern and to have his own way without any concert with us, and he is detested throughout Europe.
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)
[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard
This is a snapshot of 1720s foreign policy, geared toward providing a context for answering the question of what happens when a runaway Prussian crown prince shows up in France in 1730.

Trending topics


In this section, I'm sharing a selection of major issues that the major international players care about, i.e. their trending topics.

There are a lot, obviously. I'm ignoring ones that don't seem likely to directly affect Fritz in 1730, like Jacobitism, many of the ones having to do with trade and colonies overseas (although not all, as you'll see), and, like, Russia.

Wittelsbachs as emperors )

Wittelsbach subsidies )

Jülich & Berg )

Dunkirk )

Gibraltar )

Parma and Tuscany )

Pragmatic Sanction )

Ostend Company )

Bremen and Verden )

Holstein-Gottorp and Schleswig )

Mecklenburg )

Decision-making Characters


In this section, I'm talking about some characters that will be relevant to the decision-making process about a Prussian crown prince seeking asylum.

They're French, because this was researched for a fictional AU (unwritten) in which Fritz shows up in France.

Cardinal Fleury )

Chauvelin )

Rottembourg )

International relations


Britain-France )

Britain-Austria )

Britain-Spain )

Britain-Bavaria )

Britain-Prussia )

Austria-Spain )

Austria-France )

Austria-Prussia )

France-Spain )

Netherlands )

Russia )

Diplomacy


These are SOME of the relevant treaties made in our period.

1725: Treaty of Vienna
1725: Treaty of Hanover
1726: Treaty of Wusterhausen
1727: Preliminaries of Paris
1728: Peace of Pardo
1729: Treaty of Seville
1731: Treaty of Vienna
1733: Bourbon Family Compact

1725: Treaty of Vienna )

1725: Treaty of Hanover )

1726: Treaty of Wusterhausen )

1727: Preliminaries of Paris )

1728: Peace of Pardo )

1729: Treaty of Seville )

1731: Treaty of Vienna )

1733: Bourbon Family Compact )

FW, awkward negotiator )

Salon Discussion


Saxony )
selenak: (Elizabeth - shadows in shadows by Poison)
[personal profile] selenak
...by Matthew Dennison. A very readable and recent biography of Queen Caroline. Dennison would get the Horowski seal of approval: he spells all the German names correctly (which is a true challenge in the case of the Countess of Schaumburg-Lippe-Bückeburg), is aware that the Countess of Kielmansegg was G1's half sister, not mistress, and while sympathetic to his main subject is able to investigate her less than stellar sides as well. (Though he thinks Wilhelmine has no idea what she's talking about with her powerhungry-as-Agrippina comparison, since she never met Caroline.) This is especially notable in the description of the increasingly toxic breakdown of the (non-)relationship between Caroline and her oldest son, but more about this in a moment.

The bibliography is impressive. (No books in German, but he's read all the English translations of Sophie's various correspondences he got his hands on, for example, as well as translated into English or French biographies.) I haven't come across an immediately noticeable error save one, and because he's so good otherwise, I'm now actually confused and uncertain whether he could have been right.

Just which Hannover Princess did Fritz pledge himself to marry in the English Marriage Project? )

On to the life of Caroline.

Ansbach Cinderella makes it to the Prussian Court )

But back to Caroline, young princess of tiny Ansbach with no big heritage (remember, product of second marriage) hanging out a lot at Berlin. She was a youthful beauty by the standards of her age - bright blond hair, white, luminous skin, a good figure which only later would get heavy, but would almost to the end be perceived as voluptous -, and an impressive conversationalist. Given the lack of a dowry, the amazing thing is that her first proposal should come from a very impressive source - young Archduke Charles, future Dad of Maria Theresa.

How Caroline rejects an Empire and becomes a heroine to Protestants everywhere )

On to the Georges: in order to make it always clear who is who, Dennison calls G1 George Louis both before and after his becoming King, and G2 George Augustus (ditto). Why was Caroline's attachment to the Protestant faith a good selling point to convince George Louis she could make a good match for his son, despite the lack of a dowry? Because at this point, the prospect of the British succession became increasingly real. Cousins William and Mary had produced no living offspring. Cousin Anne's children had all died. And the reason why the ca. 50 people between Sophie and Anne were disqualified from the succession in the eyes of Protestant England was that they were all Catholics. Now, George Louis and Sophie cunningly let young George Augustus believe this was all his idea, and he went through that romantic undercover mission where he under a pseudonym showed up at Ansbach (Caroline after Figuelotte's death had gone to her half brother's court) and fell in love at first sight. But there was a lot of stage management behind the scenes there.

Young George falls in love, but what did Caroline feel? )

When the British parliament produced the Act of Settlement (which made it law that any successor to Anne had to be Sophie or a PROTESTANT descendant of Sophie), Caroline, who definitely had the brains of the marriage, inmmediately started an Anglisation project, learning English, cultivating the increasing number of British visitors now showing up at Hannover, reading up on English literature, and on English history. (She became an early member of Tudor fandom, which the poets cultivating her later noted, pleasing her by comparing her to Elizabeth, not more recent Queens like Anne or Mary II.) Among the Brits showing up at Hannover were the Howards. Charles Howard was a louse, and a physically abusive husband, and his wife, Henrietta, had come here with one aim in mind: get a job from the future British monarchs that would get her away from her husband. Her original idea had been becoming lady in waiting to Caroline, which she did, but she also ended up as future G2's first mistress.

The Caroline-Henrietta-G2 triangle )

Back to the Hannover days when they were all still young.

G2 wants to join the army; Sophie argues with Anne )

Caroline and her oldest son: First act of a train wreck )

George Louis becomes G1 while Caroline hits on a winning strategy to make herself and her husband popular )

So much for the fun part. Meanwhile, the G1 vs future G2 father/son cold war had become a hot one.

Almost Murder in the Cathedral: G1 kicks G2 and Caroline out of the palace )

This treatment of Caroline has the effect that Europe, which might otherwise have sided with the patriarch, now sides with the young couple, because cutting off Caroline from her children just because she's a loyal wife looks terrible. It also does lasting damage.

Caroline loses at motherhood and wins at queendom )

Fritz of Wales arrives without public fanfare through the back entrance of the St. James Palace and is presented with a family who hasn't been missing him. Things go downhill from there.

Final acts of all sorts )

Caroline dies, after that painful illness, Händel composes a new work in her honor ("The Ways of Zion to Mourn"), G2 says "I never saw a woman worth to buckle her shoe" and at the Royal Exchange, a wit posts: "Death, where is thy sting? To take the Queen, and leave the King!" (As by this time, G2 had lost all the popularity he'd had as Prince of Wales, not least because by his trips to Hannover post ascension to the throne, he'd shown that he did not, as had been expected, "hate Germany and love England". Dennison thinks it's very unfair that Caroline is forgotten today, who'd been the first Princess of Wales since a young Katherine of Aragon and who'd been the most powerful Queen Consort in many a generation, too, doing more than any other single member of the Hannover royal family to assure it became largedly accepted in GB, and he opes his biography helps bringing her memory back at least somewhat.
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)
[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard
The War of the Spanish Succession: Why do we care?

The generation prior to ours was deeply involved: F1, FW, MT's dad Charles VI, Hans Heinrich von Katte, Grumbkow, Prince Eugene, George I, Louis XIV, etc. Lots of royals died and new ones inherited, leading to tons of exciting political developments. It had as much to do with "Everyone in Europe is unhappy with everyone else" as it did with the actual Spanish Succession. It changed the map of Europe. New wars were started afterward by the people unhappy with the way this one ended.

It intersects in interesting ways with the Great Northern War, which was going on simultaneously, and about which I hope to learn more next.

Finally: all of Europe spent 40 years anticipating this war, making treaties to try to prevent it, and fighting other wars with an eye toward how this one was going to develop.

Overview )

Philip V )

Hanovers and Stuarts )

Netherlands backstory )

Royal Turnover 1711-1715 )

Battle of Blenheim )

1709 and Malplaquet )

Malplaquet tactics )

French, Dutch, and Bavarian Backstories )

Preventative Treaties That Prevent Nothing )

Some anecdotes )

Philip V: The Later Years )

For more backstory from the 15th-17th centuries, see [personal profile] selenak's various posts in this thread.

Profile

rheinsberg: (Default)
rheinsberg

June 2025

S M T W T F S
12 34567
891011121314
15161718192021
22232425262728
2930     

Syndicate

RSS Atom

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Jun. 10th, 2025 07:49 am
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios